House edge with these rules
Quote: MaShuaiDoes anyone know how this rule would affect the house edge? Player loses both bets after doubling with an 11 vs Dealer Blackjack? Doubling with any other total would only result in losing the original wager. Thanks for any input.
How can you double against a blackjack? Dealer asks for insurance if it's an A and checks for BJ if it's a 10
Quote: NeutrinoHow can you double against a blackjack? Dealer asks for insurance if it's an A and checks for BJ if it's a 10
Not everywhere. In some places the dealers don't check, and in others the dealer doesn't deal his second card until everyone else has settled their hands.
There are no Worldwide rules for the game.
see https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/basics/ says .11% https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/rule-variations/ with .08% for doubling and .03% for splitting.
Quote: gordonm888I think that number pertains to losing on all doubling vs blackjack, not just to double on 11 vs blackjack.
For a Basic Strategy player it wouldn't make any difference (since there are no BS doubles vs. a 10 or A with hands other than 11). (If you're a counter who uses indices then the special rule would be a factor since 10 vs. 10 and 10 vs. A are doubles above a certain count with peek/OBO rules.)
Quote: KellynbnfFor a Basic Strategy player it wouldn't make any difference (since there are no BS doubles vs. a 10 or A with hands other than 11). (If you're a counter who uses indices then the special rule would be a factor since 10 vs. 10 and 10 vs. A are doubles above a certain count with peek/OBO rules.)
Perhaps it does make a difference, but as I think about it more, I don't know if that difference is worth 0.08%.
Proper basic strategy under the rules outlined above would be to hit on 11 vs a dealer 10, as you said. However, if the player only lost his original wager after doubling, then the proper strategy would be to double. So is that one change - hitting an 11 vs dealer ace instead of doubling - enough to increase the house edge by 0.08%? Seems too high and very unlikely to me.
I'm still not sure we've found the answer.
Dealer Stands on all 17s
Can double on any two cards, including after splitting
Can split up to 4 hands, but aces can be split once
Early surrender allowed, except vs Dealer Ace
Player loses both split bets vs dealer BJ
If player can double and only lose the original bet vs dealer BJ, I think the house edge on the game is 0.19%.
However the last rule recently changed to this :
Player loses all double bets if they doubled on 11 vs dealer BJ
So how would that rule change affect the house edge?
Quote: QFITAhh, with that rule, you would not double vs. 10. The reduction in EV would be .084%
Does a reduction in EV of 0.084% mean the same thing as adding 0.084% to the house edge? What if I hit the 11 instead of doubled it? Or in other words, played correctly? What's the house edge considering perfect play?
Quote: MaShuaiDoes anyone know how this rule would affect the house edge? Player loses both bets after doubling with an 11 vs Dealer Blackjack? Doubling with any other total would only result in losing the original wager. Thanks for any input.
I will attempt to answer this part of the original post below
"Doubling with any other total would only result in losing the original wager." Assuming 'losing the original wager' only and not the doubled part, since this seems like a 'unique rule'^^^
^^^The way it sounds to me is it may mean that you are effectively getting 2/1 on your original wager*** against dealer upcards of 2 through 9,
2/1 on your original wager***: because the way the post is written, it seems like you will get half your doubled wager back automatically against a dealer 2 - 9, if the dealer wins the hand?
Also, I originally posted some figures for doubling against a dealer Ace or 10/Picture card, then I realised that they were wrong (but it is still probably worth doubling against a 10/Picture card, but I am not sure if it worth doubling against an Ace)
Lastly, please correct me if my interpretation of "Doubling with any other total would only result in losing the original wager" is wrong
thank you
Quote: ksdjdjI will attempt to answer this part of the original post below
"Doubling with any other total would only result in losing the original wager." Assuming 'losing the original wager' only and not the doubled part, since this seems like a 'unique rule'^^^
^^^The way it sounds to me is it may mean that you are effectively getting 2/1 on your original wager*** against dealer upcards of 2 through 9,
2/1 on your original wager***: because the way the post is written, it seems like you will get half your doubled wager back automatically against a dealer 2 - 9, if the dealer wins the hand?
Also, I originally posted some figures for doubling against a dealer Ace or 10/Picture card, then I realised that they were wrong (but it is still probably worth doubling against a 10/Picture card, but I am not sure if it worth doubling against an Ace)
Lastly, please correct me if my interpretation of "Doubling with any other total would only result in losing the original wager" is wrong
thank you
You have an 11 vs the dealer 10 and an original bet of $100. You double down by adding a second wager of $100 and get an 8 for 19. Play goes around the table and the dealer's hole card is an Ace, thereby making 21. In this scenario the casino takes both the original bet ($100) and the bet you made when you doubled ($100) for a total of ($200), instead of just the original bet ($100). The standard industry rule where I live is just to take the original bet, not both, when the Dealer has Blackjack. So I was wondering how this rule exception affects the house edge.
Keep in mind, this rule only applies when doubling with 11 and when the dealer has a Blackjack.
Effectively that means, every other time you double and the dealer doesn't have Blackjack, you always lose both bets.
And it means if you doubled on 10, 9, 8, 7 etc or whatever, or any total other than on 11, and the Dealer has Blackjack, then you only lose the original bet.
This last part is technically irrelevant as you should never double, unless counting, other totals vs 10 or Ace. I suspect the reason for this rule is to encourage ploppy play. Thus for House Edge calculations the only rules that matter are those where you double 11 (or split Aces or 8s).Quote: MaShuai...if you doubled on 10, 9, 8, 7 etc or whatever, or any total other than on 11, and the Dealer has Blackjack, then you only lose the original bet.
Quote: charliepatrickThis last part is technically irrelevant as you should never double, unless counting, other totals vs 10 or Ace. I suspect the reason for this rule is to encourage ploppy play. Thus for House Edge calculations the only rules that matter are those where you double 11 (or split Aces or 8s).
I think it is relevant. Assuming you could double with 11 and only lose your original bet vs Dealer BJ, then basic strategy says to double on 11 vs dealer 10. At least that's what the Wizard says in his Blackjack chart on the Macau site. Furthermore, the house edge with those rules would be 0.16%. Again, its all on the Macau site.
However the rules there have changed in some casinos to losing both bets after doubling on 11 vs Dealer Blackjack. This in turns affects the basic strategy, whereby you should no longer double on 11 vs 10. Just trying to figure out how that affects the house edge.
Quote: charliepatrickThis last part is technically irrelevant as you should never double, unless counting, other totals vs 10 or Ace. I suspect the reason for this rule is to encourage ploppy play. Thus for House Edge calculations the only rules that matter are those where you double 11 (or split Aces or 8s).
I've also thought about your logic when I see for example a casino that allows doubling on hands of 9-11 only - by prohibiting "ploppy plays" they're probably losing more than from legitimate BS plays that they are not allowing to supposedly increase the house edge. Maybe a better way to state such a rule would be that if you double a soft hand, then an ace in the original hand (but not the one you may get dealt after doubling) must count as 1. For example you have a soft 18 and decide to double. If you get a 2 or 3, then you'd have a total of 10 or 11 respectively (rather than 20 or 21) - if you get an ace you'd have 19 though (the same as if you doubled a hard 8).
I've been in some casinos in the continent who do invoke the A=1 if you double, though it's not obvious unless you ask.
