Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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April 17th, 2017 at 6:23:52 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

I've also played a couple of rounds now where cards came out of the csm shoe face up because the csm was misloaded. so they could be seen one card in advance: a massive ap. in both cases the pb agreed with all at table that we would play out that round as dealt.


There's have been a lot of instances where I'd be at first base and the dealer would push the cards towards the back of the shoe to see how many are left before the cut card. Many of these times I'd see the first card. A or T, TABLE MAX!!! Any other card, sit out.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
LostWages
LostWages
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April 17th, 2017 at 8:04:09 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

There's have been a lot of instances where I'd be at first base and the dealer would push the cards towards the back of the shoe to see how many are left before the cut card. Many of these times I'd see the first card. A or T, TABLE MAX!!! Any other card, sit out.

I'm trying to visualize how the scenario would work out. The table max at my pitch BJ game at MSS is $1,000. So if I saw an A or T as first card, I would bet $1,000 (if I had it?). And if any other card, don't place a bet.

Aren't we supposed to place bet before the dealer deals?

I think I just don't have a well-rounded variety of experiences to understand; or maybe it's just staring at me in the face?
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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April 17th, 2017 at 8:06:08 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

I'm trying to visualize how the scenario would work out. The table max at my pitch BJ game at MSS is $1,000. So if I saw an A or T as first card, I would bet $1,000 (if I had it?). And if any other card, don't place a bet.

Aren't we supposed to place bet before the dealer deals?

I think I just don't have a well-rounded variety of experiences to understand; or maybe it's just staring at me in the face?


First card accidentally exposed before being dealt.

If it's and ace, hopefully the side bet being offered is "Hi Tie."
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
LostWages
LostWages
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April 17th, 2017 at 8:14:25 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

First card accidentally exposed before being dealt.

If it's and ace, hopefully the side bet being offered is "Hi Tie."

First time I've heard/read about this. OK, something to keep in my pocket for next trip, just in case! Thanks!

Everytime I think I picked up something useful and helpful, along comes another tip. What an endless (but enjoyable) journey this is!
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
theoriemeister
theoriemeister
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
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Thanks for this post from:
LostWages
April 17th, 2017 at 8:18:57 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: LostWages





Situations like that are staggeringly frequent (maybe something like that in every 5 sessions or so) : Regardless of count, you can often find yourself out at 4 hands, maybe with two or more times your base bet out on each of them after resplitting a few times and DASing. They are shit or bust hands which can wipe out several good sessions of profit or can turn a bad week into a great week. This is why we must hold a few dollars in reserve and why we should not feel too good or too bad at how much we have won or lost this session, this week, or this month. These hands are pure adrenalin and you are totally at the mercy of lady variance, so roll with them and enjoy them win or lose. Surely some you will win and some you will lose.
In one early bricks and mortar session, where I'd just about established myself as the polite newbie low roller, I found myself at the end of my stack of chips and went all in with £20, which split and doubled so much I had to reach to my wallet twice, putting about £100 out there. I lost the lot and let out an expletive 'F*** me rigid' or similar. The dealer and fellow players and I just fell about laughing at my outburst which was so out of character and just so terribly fitting. I apologised of course. Broke the ice: Pity I was out of money by then. The comedy value and the excitement made it all worth while.



Just last weekend I had something very similar to OP (also betting $5). I'm dealt 8-8, dealer showing a 5. I split the 8s, get dealt a 3 for the first 8, i double and receive a 9. The dealer gives me a third 8, so I split again. For the second 8 I receive a 5, so I stand. For the third 8 dealer gives me my fourth 8, so I split one final time. Then the dealer gives me a 2 for the third 8, so I double that, and then finally a 6 on my last 8. I have $30 out and am nervous, as I've never split to four hands before. Dealer turns over an 8 (total = 13), and the way things have been going I fully expect the dealer not to bust. However, the dealer draws a 9 and busts and I win! Woo hoo! The guy to my right gives me a fist bump! I tip the dealer $2 and continue playing. I'm up about $65, then the dealers change, a card is burned and I lose 4 consecutive hands to the new dealer. Ah well, such is life.
ars longa vita brevis
LostWages
LostWages
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April 17th, 2017 at 8:27:20 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

I'll have to work it out: I doubt it. Practically tc+5 is quite rare.No. It's pretty fast from a shoe, face up. 10-20 minutes or so.Very much so. TC will take a while to go up, but then it will tend to take a while to go back down too.I've never played a pich face down game. With 6deck, only the dealer touches the cards. I figure easier to count the face up game but you maybe have to think faster.

Oh my, I'll have to get a new notebook pretty soon to fill it up with all these notes. OK, so it looks like I'll have to "ramp up" my card-adding abilities (I'm a tad slow) if I can't touch the cards (security blanket) and they're all face-up on the table.

I'll be patient for a TC that fluctuates more gradually than pitch BJ, and be ready to play "faster" than I do in a pitch BJ game.

All the indicators are urging me to at least try a shoe game ONCE on my next trip.

Now, if I could only satisfy my curiosity about the max TC count in a 6 deck game. If all the 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, and 6s somehow miraculously got dealt out, my bare bones math brain still says that's:

5 pts (1 for each 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) X 4 suits = TC +20 X 6 decks = 120?

Maybe I missed the boat on this one . . . I woudn't have a BR big enough to satisfy a TC + 120 anyway . . . :-)
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
LostWages
LostWages
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April 17th, 2017 at 8:31:50 PM permalink
Quote: theoriemeister

Quote: OnceDear

Quote: LostWages





Situations like that are staggeringly frequent (maybe something like that in every 5 sessions or so) : Regardless of count, you can often find yourself out at 4 hands, maybe with two or more times your base bet out on each of them after resplitting a few times and DASing. They are shit or bust hands which can wipe out several good sessions of profit or can turn a bad week into a great week. This is why we must hold a few dollars in reserve and why we should not feel too good or too bad at how much we have won or lost this session, this week, or this month. These hands are pure adrenalin and you are totally at the mercy of lady variance, so roll with them and enjoy them win or lose. Surely some you will win and some you will lose.
In one early bricks and mortar session, where I'd just about established myself as the polite newbie low roller, I found myself at the end of my stack of chips and went all in with £20, which split and doubled so much I had to reach to my wallet twice, putting about £100 out there. I lost the lot and let out an expletive 'F*** me rigid' or similar. The dealer and fellow players and I just fell about laughing at my outburst which was so out of character and just so terribly fitting. I apologised of course. Broke the ice: Pity I was out of money by then. The comedy value and the excitement made it all worth while.



Just last weekend I had something very similar to OP (also betting $5). I'm dealt 8-8, dealer showing a 5. I split the 8s, get dealt a 3 for the first 8, i double and receive a 9. The dealer gives me a third 8, so I split again. For the second 8 I receive a 5, so I stand. For the third 8 dealer gives me my fourth 8, so I split one final time. Then the dealer gives me a 2 for the third 8, so I double that, and then finally a 6 on my last 8. I have $30 out and am nervous, as I've never split to four hands before. Dealer turns over an 8 (total = 13), and the way things have been going I fully expect the dealer not to bust. However, the dealer draws a 9 and busts and I win! Woo hoo! The guy to my right gives me a fist bump! I tip the dealer $2 and continue playing. I'm up about $65, then the dealers change, a card is burned and I lose 4 consecutive hands to the new dealer. Ah well, such is life.

That is a really great story for me to remember. It helps put emphasis on what OnceDear is always saying: "Embrace the Variance". Thanks for your post!
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
LostWages
LostWages
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April 17th, 2017 at 11:00:02 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

If you are alert and see an exploitable error, it's nice to have a few hundred in your wallet just for that hand.

Well now, that's a great tip, and I did read the link story too! Right now, I would still consider myself in "sponge" stage - still absorbing all the good pieces and parts of the forum discussions, assigning each tip to a situation that I can call on when the opportunity shows up on the felt. My "notebook" is getting fatter every day, and I've only been back from Las Vegas 7 days!

Since we're on the topic (OnceDear plays in the UK), does anyone know how the situation he describes would be addressed in a Las Vegas casino?

Just getting ready!

Thanks, OD!
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
LostWages
LostWages
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April 17th, 2017 at 11:35:47 PM permalink
Quote: LVkid

So you might want to reconsider stop win/loss limits and the amount of your session bankroll to allow you to play more optimally.

Thanks for all the observations you made on my OP. You've helped me tremendously by pointing out issues I need to re-evaluate and then change or keep, and make room for new strategies or ammunition for me to bring to the table.

I am big on enthusiastically learning from constructive comments, but alas, I'm just short on experience (no gambling in Hawaii), the proper terminology (don't know all the catch-phrases), and the variety of situations (just not enough experience, that's all). But I'm glad I outlined all MY planning thoughts and strategies on this last visit so that the more experienced can help me -- as you are doing -- refine my approach on my next visit. So, thanks in advance!

1. Stop win/stop loss: Yes, I can well imagine these are anti-AP concepts, but since this was only my 2nd time to actually play BJ AND card-count, I had to draw the limits somewhere. Not knowing any better, I followed what I read elsewhere on the forum: "There is no set number here, but a nice general rule is to quit after building your bankroll up by 30%-40%, and stop when you’ve lost 50% of your bankroll . . . Consider playing SHORT sessions: less than 45 min of play or when you have reached your targeted WIN or designated loss, whichever comes first.

2. Wonging out after first bet of my max spread ($25). Again, I may have misinterpreted what I've read on the forum - at the time I took my notes, the wong out moment was intended to avoid attention from dealer, PB, or eye-in-the-sky. I don't have any experienced reason for following this action. No, it never occurred to me to leave MID-GAME. With a TC of +3 or better, I would stay as long as my BR and emergency fund was available. I think my wording is indeed poorly constructed. ". . . leave AT THE SHUFFLE after showing your max bet" (your words) does sound more professional and correct. Thanks again!

3. BR session of $100 + $50 emergency for double-down only. At the introduction of my "confessions", I already understood I was underfunded. I was willing to do this anyway, in exchange for my first opportunity to card-count an entire shuffle, not just the first few hands. In fact, I have notes that state: "Experts suggest having enough money to cover 30 to 50 average bets for a 2-3 hour session. That means a bankroll of $300 to $500 for a $10 average bet or $150 to $250 for a $5 average bet. I would certainly dislike being forced to exit prematurely under any conditions! But, now that I've had my very first (albeit very short) card-counting experience, I've made my goal. On my next trip, I'll evaluate a better funded BR, but I'll need time (and some help) working out a strategy to deploy these funds.
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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LostWages
April 18th, 2017 at 1:42:51 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

There's have been a lot of instances where I'd be at first base and the dealer would push the cards towards the back of the shoe to see how many are left before the cut card. Many of these times I'd see the first card. A or T, TABLE MAX!!! Any other card, sit out.


Dealers who fiddle with the cards are worth watching carefully, especially their hands. I've got to know the 'traits and foibles' of a few dealers. A few prematurely take the next card from the shoe and wave it about a bit when I'm playing a bit slow. Some, I toy with and mess with their minds by playfully saying something like 'Hmmm. I'd like to double', when I have tree cards already. By getting the dealer to NEARLY misdeal can unnerve them and either slow them down or put them off their stride enough that they make another mistake. It's a bit naughty, but if they make mistakes and you only alert them when the error favours the casino, you can wrangle a tiny edge. Besides, I think we should penalise a cocky dealer who pre-empts our selection.
I've never bet table max in a bricks and mortar and would be unlikely to ever do so. Mathematically it would be the right thing to do, especially if you pre- see an Ace coming, but it would mean placing a bankroll changing amount at great jeopardy. While low rolling in 5 to 20 bets, the most I'd put at risk on that detected Ace would be half of what was in my wallet (about half of £300). LW staking the value of his holiday budget on one hand would be a sight to behold, especially when he gets excited at ramping to $20.
IBYA. Can I guess that you don't have a wife worrying about your table max wagering? Mine would go nuts if she saw me place a £1000 wager and no amount of explaining about +ev would smooth that over.

$;o)
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.

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