Illustrious 18 in 4 deck.

My area offers 4 deck blackjack.
-Spread is 3-25
-Dealer stands soft 17
-No surrender
-Double anything
-1 card on Aces split only (can resplit the aces)
-4 splits max
-Blackjack pays 3/2

First off, is this game beatable without completely stinging out on tips (if not is it beatable without tipping? (something I wouldn't do but am curious about.))
Secondly, I have been counting for fun for the last few years and started studying the "Illustrious 18"

It says on the wizard of odds (where I discovered it) that it is based off of a 6 deck game and was wondering if there is anywhere I can find the adjusted "Illustrious 18" numbers for my game described above.

If you are unsure will using these 6 deck based numbers still help?

Even if game isn't beatable I really want to know the best strategy.

Thanks to anyone who posts and i'll check in.

Hi Johnny, and welcome to the forums.

Simply plugging your rules in to the Wizard's blackjack house edge calculator I'm showing the game, from the rules you listed, has a .32% HE. This is a pretty good game of blackjack, at least rule based. One of the biggest questions that's going to determine a lot about this game is: How is the penetration? When they put the cut card in the shoe, how many decks do they cut off that will not be played? One, two? The difference between these is very large. Anything more than 1 deck cut off will make this game much less playable.

Next, you don't exlude it, so I'll ask... Is this a continuous shuffler game? If so you can mark this game as more/less unbeatable. Sure there are ways to count a Continuous Shuffler Machine (CSM) but it basically gives you really poor penetration which makes for a lousy game.

Moving on... You say the spread is 3-25. Do you mean that's the table minimum and maximum? If so, that's not even a 10-1 spread. You could make some profit off it, but more/less you'd probably be breaking even with tipping. I can run some more formal numbers after getting some of the other questions above answered.

Lastly, the I18 numbers for 6 deck will be the same for your 4 deck game. The amount of change in the I18 based on the number of decks, at least from 6 to 4 is essentially negligible. So study up the I18 that you've found.

IF the game is a shoe game, and they don't cut off more than 1 deck, the game is beatable... but by how much really depends on the table min/max and your spread question I have above.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Well I actually deal the game as well and can tell you that my boss tells me to cut off 1 deck but I've played against other dealers with the same rules that cut a little deeper i'd say 1.33.

Yes that 3-25 is in dollars but I can find a 1-25 game with same rules.

It is not a continuous shuffler.

If your able to run the numbers I'd love to hear what they are.

If you have a software or something and it's not much trouble I'd be curious to see the difference between a 1 deck cut and 1.33 like I mentioned above. And I don't mean to ask a lot but maybe how much better is the 1-25 game although I wouldn't feel comfortable jumping back and forth from 1 dollar bets to 25 dollar bets.

BTW I just use a Hi-Lo count

Seeing that you know a lot more about this than me, would you recommend that I use a different count.

Sorry for asking so much I'm just very interested.

Thanks Romes

So you both deal and play this game?

1 deck cut off = 75% PEN, which is okay, but usually the minimum to play a shoe game.
1.33 deck cut off = 67% PEN, which most could consider not good enough. Then again your game has decent rules, but with such a low table max you couldn't really make any kind of money from it either way.

Anyone counting this game would be doing so mostly for fun, as you couldn't really make much money even if you spread from $3 straight to $25 in positive situations. $8/hr (even with good PEN). You probably make more dealing the game than playing it.

Yeah I deal and play for fun.

Not only do I want to lose less while playing for fun, I keep track of count in my head while dealing and want to give the best advice to my players if they have a tip bet out and ask me what to do (only when they ask me what I would do of course).

Cool appreciate the info.

Quote: johnnyvegas

Yeah I deal and play for fun.

Not only do I want to lose less while playing for fun, I keep track of count in my head while dealing and want to give the best advice to my players if they have a tip bet out and ask me what to do (only when they ask me what I would do of course).

Cool appreciate the info.

I suspect that counting cards for the players while dealing would be frowned upon in most Joints, tip bet or not. How long have you engaged in this behavior ;-?

OP do you have to pay an ante? A lot of these low limit tables require an ante on each hand unless over $5

I never would tell anyone that I was counting just give them honest advice if they ask me what I would do in a hand . Maybe I would say I would stay on a 16 vs a 10 with positive count. All I am doing is being honest.

No ante required.

Quote: johnnyvegas

Yeah I deal and play for fun.

Not only do I want to lose less while playing for fun, I keep track of count in my head while dealing and want to give the best advice to my players if they have a tip bet out and ask me what to do (only when they ask me what I would do of course).

Cool appreciate the info.

Studying up so you can advise the correct index play for the count. There's a dealer who earns his tips.