Money Mgt for BJ

We know that no betting scheme can erase the house edge using just basic strategy, so level bets only. But a good MM system can often help session results.

Here is a good one that I have had overall excellent results with in BJ:
Buyin is 20 units, so playing green would be $500. Just bet level $25 each hand. When winning +$500 as to the total session bankroll at the end of the shoe or at the end of DD, then pocket the winnings. Then start over with the 20 units($500) on the next shoe. Continue to play like this until lose the 20 units which will eventually occur as we know, then cash in any pocketed winnings. Anytime +$500 at the end of the shoe, then continue to pocket the winnings, when lose the 20 units that completes the session. The 20 unit bankroll seems about right for BJ. Many times I get down about 10 units, but do ultimately get in the plus at the end of the shoe during the session. Often it takes an hour or more to complete, and many times in the plus overall for the session. I do not count the winnings before the end. Really no meaningful difference in results playing with 6 decks or double deck, both with good rules here in Mississippi.

I am also thinking of doing the same with pass-odds for craps. $5 pass and 5X odds and simply buying in for $500 and pocketing any wins at the end of the shooter's hand using this same MM scheme. I wonder which would do better with this one, craps or BJ using the same MM system?

Quote: dwm

We know that no betting scheme can erase the house edge using just basic strategy, so level bets only. But a good MM system can often help session results.

Here is a good one that I have had overall excellent results with in BJ:
Buyin is 20 units, so playing green would be $500. Just bet level $25 each hand. When winning +$500 as to the total session bankroll at the end of the shoe or at the end of DD, then pocket the winnings. Then start over with the 20 units($500) on the next shoe. Continue to play like this until lose the 20 units which will eventually occur as we know, then cash in any pocketed winnings. Anytime +$500 at the end of the shoe, then continue to pocket the winnings, when lose the 20 units that completes the session. The 20 unit bankroll seems about right for BJ. Many times I get down about 10 units, but do ultimately get in the plus at the end of the shoe during the session. Often it takes an hour or more to complete, and many times in the plus overall for the session. I do not count the winnings before the end. Really no meaningful difference in results playing with 6 decks or double deck, both with good rules here in Mississippi.

I am also thinking of doing the same with pass-odds for craps. $5 pass and 5X odds. I wonder which would do better with this one, craps or BJ using the same MM system?

I'd pocket more often (every $100 or $150 up would work). My schema in craps is to play x2 odds normally. Any time a 4 or 10 comes in, I pocket the $25 chip (or the 5 reds). I've probably got a little bit lucky on the 4/10 odds coming in more often than they should...

I am not sure you understand it Mr. TheCesspit, as to your pocketing more often per yours above. I am pocketing ANY win at the end of the shoe, meaning if I now have $525 total, then pocket the $25, then starting over with the same $500.
As to craps, thinking in terms of pocketing any win above the $500 at the end of the shooter's hand, then starting anew with the same $500, until ultimately playing out the $500 which will happen and hopefully will have some wins pocketed first.

If your 20 unit buy in is your entire bankroll you are over betting. You need at least 50x your base bet for basic strategy flat betting and 100x for counting. As we all know, there will be times you'll never get ahead. Start a shoe by losing a couple of doubles and a four way split and you are under water right away.

Perfect basic strategy and flat betting will reward you with a loss equal to the house edge over time.

I also play green. I buy in for $300, and if that busts out I buy in for another $200. If that busts out I'm done for the day. I find this usually works for me over a session (I don't play that long, maybe an hour or so). I was busting out a lot before, but now I feel like I've "won" if I can hold on to that initial $300 session stake. I'm always surprised at how fast a 10-unit bankroll can bust out in BJ, just flat betting.
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I'm not a huge fan of money management schemes. It's all the same in the long run.

Quote: dwm

But a good MM system can often help session results.

I don't worry too much about money management. I find that when I get down to zero a button pops up asking me if I'd like to press Replenish in order to get another thousand dollar bankroll.

If I reach "ruin" promptly, it is so nice to be able to click on that button and I often do not hesitate to do so. I somehow never conclude that its a trend and a trend can continue. In real life, however, things are far, far different. I do think it helps the comp rating to start out strong, so I've been in the habit of doing fairly sizable bets straight off. This ofcourse is a dangerous habit. Its fun on the computer screen, but not so fun in real life.

Now as to using a system at BJ and Craps... I imagine the 5x Odds bet would make a good bit of your money being at a lower house edge whereas at Blackjack ALL of your money is constantly subject to the casino's "bite", so you would probably do better at craps. Certainly at a five dollar table a Buy In of 500 is sufficient.

The thing about craps is it is so much slower than BJ, and often 5 or more shooters do not make their first point, much less multiple points, and losing streaks are very common as to pass-points. But we do get the higher odds pay-offs instead of even money on BJ. It probably is better for BJ compared to craps, but will give it a try on craps and compare as craps is much more fun.

Quote: dwm

I am not sure you understand it Mr. TheCesspit, as to your pocketing more often per yours above. I am pocketing ANY win at the end of the shoe, meaning if I now have $525 total, then pocket the $25, then starting over with the same $500.

I understand you perfectly now. I like your schema.

Quote:

As to craps, thinking in terms of pocketing any win above the $500 at the end of the shooter's hand, then starting anew with the same $500, until ultimately playing out the $500 which will happen and hopefully will have some wins pocketed first.

Possibly, but as other's have stated you can often end up under water in craps for all the session, even if it lasts a jolly good length of time.

Another way I'd play in BJ would be swipe the extra in any 3/2 blackjack win or double down situation.

Quote: dwm

The thing about craps is it is so much slower than BJ, and often 5 or more shooters do not make their first point, much less multiple points, and losing streaks are very common as to pass-points. But we do get the higher odds pay-offs instead of even money on BJ. It probably is better for BJ compared to craps, but will give it a try on craps and compare as craps is much more fun.

This is one of the more realistic schemes I've seen. In BJ, you have a natural reset point (the end of the shoe). As you have noted though, in craps you don't have that natural reset point. A reset after each shooter is too often. Perhaps something like a reset after 1/2 hour and when current shooter 7 outs. Or perhaps you could choose to reset after one lap around a full table, or two laps around a half busy table. Whatever you chose, you need to be able to stick to your reset point.

I have tried ideas similar to this in the past, but my schemes were a bit more complicated. Perhaps this could be a better way to go.

Even this scheme would not have helped my last 10 or so craps sessions though, since every session has started out in the hole, never to get back to even.

I'm headed to Vegas in a couple weeks, so I will put this into play and see what happens.

Raleigh: Go to my craps blog on the table games section as to my pass-odds only scheme, you will have a good chance of winning in Vegas if you follow it exactly. If you have any questions, let me know.