RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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May 10th, 2016 at 3:32:06 AM permalink
If you're a card-counter, then having a basic strategy player at your table (compared to you vs dealer heads up) obviously hurts you, because HPH goes down. If we're talking about the strategy another player uses (basic strategy vs awful strategy)....you'd be better off with someone who uses an awful strategy and very passive (ie: doesn't hit stiffs, doesn't split). Having a BS player is in the middle. And having a super aggressive player (always splitting, hitting all stiffs, etc.) tends to hurt you because he's eating up cards when the count is positive, which means fewer +EV rounds for you. If there's another card-counter at the table, then that won't really have an effect on you, really....probably more like a basic-strategy type player. But, obviously don't play at the same table as another card-counter because it'll be pretty easy to get spotted by the casino and decent chance you're playing together / as a team, and casinos reaaaally don't like that. As far as the aggressive vs passive player strategy goes.....I'd have to guess the difference in your EV is going to be pretty small, at least in a shoe game (and # of such players).

If you're a regular player (not card-counter), then the effects of someone else playing basic strategy or completely awful have absolutely no effect on you (that I can think of), at least mathematically. Having a card-counter at your table MAY hurt the basic strategy player because he MAY go from 1 spot in -EV situations and play 2 hands in +EV situations, eating up more cards in +EV situations, meaning fewer +EV rounds for you. Although, this also probably has a minimal effect.


Overall, it really doesn't make any difference whatsoever (ok, maybe a tiny sliver of a difference, if ya wanna T3-analyze it) whether it's a basic strategy player, card counter, passive or aggressive awful strategist player.
nvr55xx
nvr55xx
Joined: Jan 28, 2014
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May 17th, 2016 at 7:42:38 AM permalink
Quote: mcavanaugh8

Hello all,
I was wondering if having other players at a table impacted your probability of winning hands? If so, does it change if the player employs perfect basic strategy? Or if he is an AP? Or perhaps if he has no idea what he's doing?



While playing with a "bad" player at the table may affect you psychologically, I has almost NO effect on you mathematically, provided you don't change your basic strategy. For example: if a "bad" player at 3rd base always splits 10's, you may decide to hit with a 15 or 16 vs. 6 to "compensate" for the player's bad play.

That being said, an advantage player who enters mid-shoe during positive counts and/or leaves mid-shoe during negative counts WILL increase the house edge vs. other players. The non-counting players will play fewer hands in positive counts and fewer hands in negative counts. This is not the same thing as the "ruining the order of the cards" myth. If a player enters mid-shoe because he feels lucky or sees other players winning, this will not have a long-term impact.

I hope this helps. Replies appreciated.
BigJer
BigJer
Joined: Sep 16, 2012
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May 27th, 2016 at 12:55:45 PM permalink
Not at all. Let's say the player had aces and certain cards come out. Now, say that the person had instead splits fives. The "order" of the cards is still the same.

Besides, the number of different ways even one deck of cards can be arranged is on the order of 10**67. If you shuffled at the rate of a billion hands a sec since the beginning of the universe it would take trillions and trillions of times over the age of this universe before you would hit 10**67. Don't even ask about a 6D shoe.
The Terror of Casinos.
Kellynbnf
Kellynbnf
Joined: May 5, 2010
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May 28th, 2016 at 7:38:05 AM permalink
Quote: BigJer

Besides, the number of different ways even one deck of cards can be arranged is on the order of 10**67. If you shuffled at the rate of a billion hands a sec since the beginning of the universe it would take trillions and trillions of times over the age of this universe before you would hit 10**67. Don't even ask about a 6D shoe.



For practical purposes in Blackjack the number of permutations would be lower since suits are irrelevant and 10/J/Q/K are all worth ten points (ignoring any special rules or side bets that make those aspects of the cards relevant).
BigJer
BigJer
Joined: Sep 16, 2012
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May 28th, 2016 at 11:03:19 AM permalink
Then 13! = 6,227,020,800 ~ 6.2 x 10**9.

6D/4 = 78 -> 78! ~ 1.13e+115
The Terror of Casinos.

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