Downtown Las Vegas low limit heat?

Dear members,

I'm thinking about taking a trip there. I have been hearing that Las Vegas is one of the worst places to count cards. If I was playing only Downtown in small Casinos with low limits how bad is the heat would you say from your experience in general, excluding the known sweat shops. Lets say I play 6 deck shoes $10 minimum, what if I spread $10-$200 is that too strong? What about double deck, should I even bother spreading the standard 1-8 or avoid pitch games altogether? Thanks.

There are a few playable games downtown. You'd be surprised what you can get away with if you keep your sessions short, and play different shifts. I have been known to use super-aggressive spreads, at times.

Get a feel for the environment, read the situation, spread accordingly.

On the other hand, it is very easy to get backed off or flat betted at El Cortez. Some APs consider it a rite of passage.

You have to play your game and get the money out there when warranted. You will run into dealers and pit critters who don't like it. So be it.

Sessions should be 1 hr or less. If you see they appear to be on to you, personally I wouldnt leave right away I'd take some heat and then move on. But you have to bet out and when its time to go, its time to go

Quote: lizzieit

You have to play your game and get the money out there when warranted. You will run into dealers and pit critters who don't like it. So be it.

Sessions should be 1 hr or less. If you see they appear to be on to you, personally I wouldnt leave right away I'd take some heat and then move on. But you have to bet out and when its time to go, its time to go

Hi lizzieit! I would welcome you to the forums (my thought) but I'll leave that up to the gang that runs the place. I sit on the edge of my seat awaiting your contributions. Cheers to you! 2F

Quote: lizzieit

You have to play your game and get the money out there when warranted. You will run into dealers and pit critters who don't like it. So be it.

Sessions should be 1 hr or less. If you see they appear to be on to you, personally I wouldnt leave right away I'd take some heat and then move on. But you have to bet out and when its time to go, its time to go

1 hour or less on shoe games for sure. Even shorter on double deck, I think.

If you're going to be playing a lot of the same games, it can make sense to leave as soon as you expose your spread. E.g., if you get a huge count, bet into it, and the count goes down, just beat it right away. Don't go back to your small bet. I believe kewlj follows this strategy for his regular rotation games.

Then again, if you're on vacation and not liable to come back any time soon, it is probably worth it to push your luck a bit and try to accumulate some more EV and less walking. Worst case, you get kicked out of a bunch of places and you go home.

I didnt like to leave right away when I was getting obvious heat and had my own personal pit boss. I'd stay a bit because leaving immediately seems to me kinda confirms what they are suspecting. So I would pretend to not care or even notice, like your average guy.

But I did notice and would get out soon. Once they are on to you, no point in giving them a long look at your game. Plenty of other tables elsewhere

Downtown, in my experience, is a really sweaty place. Let me go deeper in to why it's "my experience" though. I'm a younger looking white male... You know, the profile of a counter. I've walked in to places downtown and been DOA before even playing or betting more than $20. So I believe your image plays a big role. Another reason I believe this is I've been backed off at EC on one trip, and on a totally other trip I played there spreading $25-$200 on their single deck game for about 2 hours with them ENCOURAGING me to play more. On the 2nd trip I embraced my image and played up to it doing certain things that clearly worked and threw them off.

Overall, I'd say that you're going to have a tough time, even 1:8 with the double deck games downtown... and I've got to image when you get in to black action on their shoe games you don't have much longer. I'd recommend using KewlJ's approach of short sessions and different shifts. Once you expose your max bet, head to another place. This might work for the shoe games.

Not going to get super specific, but last year, in his first year of card counting, my brother played low limit, red chip level and several downtown properties including the notoriously sweaty one, where part of his regular rotation, with relatively little issues.

I myself, continue to play several downtown properties regularly playing a bit higher, green to black, without too much problem, by playing short sessions.

One very general rule, I adhere to, besides exiting after showing spread is to avoid the 'best' game at places that are somewhat sweaty. Often the 'best' game is hawked more closely than another game at the very next table. :)

Thanks all for sharing your experiences.

Rumor is at the d that you get shown the laundry chute if you count

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Rumor is at the d that you get shown the laundry chute if you count

Too soon. That creeped me out.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

On the other hand, it is very easy to get backed off or flat betted at El Cortez. Some APs consider it a rite of passage.

I always wondered who it is who came up with this mantra and if it was someone at the EL Cortez?

Of course the EL Cortez is a little bit sensitive as it relates to card counters since they have one of the best games in LV. There are definitely sweatier places in LV and I don't know of any APs who consider a back off a right of passage. Overall they are definitely not as sharp as they would like everyone to think they are.

Quote: LeeJensen

I always wondered who it is who came up with this mantra and if it was someone at the EL Cortez?

Of course the EL Cortez is a little bit sensitive as it relates to card counters since they have one of the best games in LV. There are definitely sweatier places in LV and I don't know of any APs who consider a back off a right of passage. Overall they are definitely not as sharp as they would like everyone to think they are.

We all know that; they back off ploppies just for winning. It's one of the easiest places to get backed off or flat bet, and in my experience (and others I've heard/seen) they don't take any additional info/etc because they're so used to backing people off. So as far as a "back off" goes it's one of the "safer" ones I suppose. Great way to learn how to handle yourself when it does happen, and you know it'll happen here if you just bet green chips. Practice makes perfect lol.

Another fun thing to do with them is see how long you can last. Do note this is of course for out of towners and not in town professionals with them as part of their rotation. I found a way that I got to play them, spreading $25-$250 for about 3 hours on their SD game ;-), whereas I was flat bet after 45 minutes on a previous trip spreading $5-$40. Teaches you to be creative too...

Quote: Romes

We all know that; they back off ploppies just for winning. It's one of the easiest places to get backed off or flat bet, and in my experience (and others I've heard/seen) they don't take any additional info/etc because they're so used to backing people off. So as far as a "back off" goes it's one of the "safer" ones I suppose. Great way to learn how to handle yourself when it does happen, and you know it'll happen here if you just bet green chips. Practice makes perfect lol.

Another fun thing to do with them is see how long you can last. Do note this is of course for out of towners and not in town professionals with them as part of their rotation. I found a way that I got to play them, spreading $25-$250 for about 3 hours on their SD game ;-), whereas I was flat bet after 45 minutes on a previous trip spreading $5-$40. Teaches you to be creative too...

I don't know but we used to play BJ at the EC and never had any problems. Gold Spike to.

Then again It's been years.

There's another member on the forum who plays there and he said he's not getting to much heat.

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know but we used to play BJ at the EC and never had any problems. Gold Spike to.

Then again It's been years.

There's another member on the forum who plays there and he said he's not getting to much heat.

Shift personnel makes all the difference ;-).

I've never been BO'd from El Cortez. Although once the pit boss asked me what the count was. Years later, a dealer screamed at the top of her lungs "CHEQUES PLAY" when I went from $10 to $15 in a negative count.

Quote: RS

I've never been BO'd from El Cortez. Although once the pit boss asked me what the count was. Years later, a dealer screamed at the top of her lungs "CHEQUES PLAY" when I went from $10 to $15 in a negative count.

That's hilarious.