Trusting fellow players

Just thought I would make a nice quick post so that maybe others can learn from my mistakes. NEVER again will I trust anyone with lending them cash.... So, two years ago I meet an interesting character at a casino. Nice person, retired war veteran, female, church pastor, just all around nice person. She notices me playing a little "different" (her word for counting) and invites me to chat over dinner. Well fair enough free dinner! So I join her and talk and she winds up wanting me to help her out with her game play. For the lack of anything better to do that week I agree. I spend all week with her but she shows every sign of a gambler, counts is at -100 "who cares!" Count goes up to +20 , "cool that means I should win more!" (continues flat betting) Well through all this I decide I can't help her. Well we stay friends and still go out together and I hang with her and jump in on high counts and blah blah blah. Well, every now and then when she took out her credit limit on her card she would ask me to pass her a few hundred or one thousand or w/e. Without hesitation I would slide it over due to the fact that as a morally just person I trust people until they give me a reason not to.... Well two months go it happened.... All is well we are out with a huge group of friends all having a good time the night is young and she hits her limit. Without hesitation I slide her one thousand, she blows it so I slide her another, then a third. The next day she tells me shes got to take the kids to school and what not and then she will bring me back the three thousand after they get out of school (We had a verbal agreement that I would have my money within the next 24 hours) Then poof.... disappears forever. Let me remind everyone once again we are talking about a retired war veteran, a church pastor, and a business owner. Between her 3 income checks per month outweigh my full time jobs nearly yearly income..... All my yearly income is in the form of the casino, my full time job (which I HIGHLY dislike) is just enough to pay my base bills in case some super tragic stuff happens and I find myself bankrupt and need a job to keep the lights on... that's the only reason that I stay. Being raised very acceptive of everyone's choices I made the decision to delete the evidence and her number and forgive her so I could move on. I have moved on and don't hold a grudge for the choices she made but really opened up my eyes to how far people will go for greed. I wish I could say three thousand for me was nothing, but honestly when I started counting just two years ago with the starting bankroll of just $500 and grinding my ass off to break $10,000 within the year I think about how that three thousand could have multiplied even more. Now I am playing catch up again to reset that hit (since I stopped playing for the last two months until tonight when I just hit a table for 10 minutes for an easy five hundred). I have no hard feelings but if I have a friend in need of money every again it will be a gift, with no expectation of them returning it.

~End Rant

Was it worth it and would you do it again?

If you say no -- why did you do it?

Quote: RS

Was it worth it and would you do it again?

If you say no -- why did you do it?

No, I was born in a bad part of town and my father worked his ass off to move us into one of the nicest areas. With that being said I was raised that everyone from ghetto to prosperity was to be treated equally until they gave you a reason otherwise. I did it because I was naive of the greed of religious and wealthy people. No one I knew growing up would steal from me or my family ( friends or parents) and I guess I thought that people had a certain sense of natural dignity. I was raised that even if I was dying on the side of a street stealing or lying to get what you want were not ok. I know humans as a whole are born knowing right from wrong but some of us just think it is ok to ignore common sense for the sake of money or power. Like I said I was ignorant but have gained first hand knowledge that even grown adults who are in the last stages of their life choose to ignore right from wrong. With that being said as previously stated I wont ever let it happen again... Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

P.S. "Was it worth it and would you do it again?" comes across as you have never made a mistake ever in your life. Don't know if I am reading it wrong or if you are just arrogant?

I stopped at church pastor :)

Not because of her religious affiliation but because she seemed like she was trying very hard at convincing you she is a good person. Veteran, pastor, pretty much a bunch of buzzwords that can easily be spoofed without evidence.

Funny the shiftiest people I've worked with were the most trustworthy, and the model citizens were the most shifty.

Anyway maybe she thought ripping you off was no problem for her since you're a "gambler" and justified in her mind that you are probably not a good person so whatever happens to you, too bad, in her thinking.

Quote: djatc

I stopped at church pastor :)

Not because of her religious affiliation but because she seemed like she was trying very hard at convincing you she is a good person. Veteran, pastor, pretty much a bunch of buzzwords that can easily be spoofed without evidence.

Funny the shiftiest people I've worked with were the most trustworthy, and the model citizens were the most shifty.

Her tag on her vehicle was in fact disabled war veteran and I have attended her church... so both were legit... but I can still agree with your statement as of now.... I could leave a stack of cash on my desk at work and I am 100% certain that none of my coworkers would touch it, we are like family. She does view everyone at the casino as gamblers so maybe your right about her train of thought. Either way even if you were a murderer I would have no business stealing from you... lol

The Satan loves to take down the shepherds of the sheep by the Devil's snares (i.e., compulsive gambling).

Your Lady Minister may not just gamble away your $3,000. She may gamble away tons of her church money. Someone should tip off the FBI. That how Father McAuliffe was caught stealing & gambling away $650,000 church money (Read the embedded stories).

Quote: avenged43

Just thought I would make a nice quick post so that maybe others can learn from my mistakes. NEVER again will I trust anyone with lending them cash....

Mistakes are one of the most effective ways of learning.

Of course, if you won't lend, the flipside is that you shouldn't borrow, so that you're not letting other people make your mistake.

Hopefully she finds you and pays you back.

Quote: Artemis

The Satan  loves to take down the shepherds of the sheep by the Devil's snares (i.e., compulsive gambling).  

Your Lady Minister may not just gamble away your $3,000.   She may gamble away tons of her church money.   Someone should tip off the FBI.  That how Father McAuliffe was caught stealing & gambling away $650,000 church money (Read the embedded stories).

Thats crazy.... Hopefully she isn't stealing from the church but I honestly didn't even want to pursue my money in small claims court yet alone make that kind of acquisition..

Quote: Dieter

Mistakes are one of the most effective ways of learning.

Of course, if you won't lend, the flipside is that you shouldn't borrow, so that you're not letting other people make your mistake.

Hopefully she finds you and pays you back.

Only time will tell I suppose. But I do agree with not borrowing, I am a very humble person and live happily. More money has never hurt is more like a safety net at this point.

I'm sorry you have been taken and that it has hurt you, but I think you are getting off cheap. Such a person could easily have dreamed up a scheme to totally take everything you have. And I hate to say it, but the fact that you didn't see this coming a mile away suggests she possibly could have accomplished it.

Who do you think you could tell this: that you were regularly loaning hefty amounts of money to someone you met gambling, and that person wouldn't have their jaw drop and hit the floor, then try to gather themselves to try to dissuade you from ever doing it again?

btw if this woman has disappeared, who is preaching at that church now?

Quote: odiousgambit

btw if this woman has disappeared, who is preaching at that church now?

Very good point.

Sure, I loan gambling-friends money, but I also have their phone numbers (which it sounds like you had), know what car they drive and their license plate and where they usually park at the casino, and where they live, and not unusually where their parents live. Probably have a good idea of any pending court cases against them, too.

Not just where they say they live, mind, but I've often stopped by to drop things off.

I'm harder to disappear from, I guess.



Edited: tpyo

Let's not be so hard on the OP I can see how this could've happen. He may have though she was good for it. She may not have intended to do this but she just got in over her head chasing losses. However its certainly strange how she approached you. Sounds like she was using flattery to snare you. You were probably flattened that someone took notice to you're counting skill. She used you're passion/love/ interests against you.

I'm not sure how far she disappeared to, especially if her kids attend school, but I wouldn't just let it go that easily. Perhaps small claims is a good option(not that you'll recover anything if you win) back perhaps an ad in the local paper.

Don't be so sure coworkers wouldn't steal from you. I left money in our breakroom thinking no one would steal it. Not even two hours later, I was tipped off that someone tried to take it, claiming "The money doesn't have a name on it, so it's free money." Luckily they were stopped before they could use it. I was floored. I thought common sense and your moral conscience would tell you if there is money in a breakroom, it belongs to either an employee or an employer. I was so damn naive and trusting.

Hey, can I borrow like $2k??

j/k

So there's a few things that are intriguing to me in your story. First, it sounds like you've learned not to trust people, but do you even now see the signs of things that were wrong?

1) You were sleeping with her (I'd take the over on that bet).
2) You yourself said she was too much of a gambler to even be taught how to count cards. Monkeys can learn to count cards. She's ENTIRELY too impulsive and irrational at that point.
3) You're struggling "just enough to pay my base bills" and you saw nothing wrong with sliding $3k her way, one at a time?
4) Agreed with others that "vet" and "religious" are complete buzz words. I have a lot of respect for the honorable men/women of our armed forces, but to be honest, I know a TON of complete shithead bullies from my HS that were too stupid to do anything else and thus defaulted in to the military. At the end of the day I don't care if you're a Vet and a Preacher... I'm going to look you up and down and decide for myself if you're a good person or not regardless of ANYTHING you tell me.

5) Just my personal opinion, but I hope this doesn't scar you from ever helping someone out (when they actually need it). 99.9% of people can't be trusted, but every now and then there is a good person whom really does need help, and if you cold shoulder that person too, well, in my opinion that makes you no better than a shady person.

She's an impulsive irrational gambler and in "hanging out" with you (sleeping together more than likely) she found herself a $3k line of credit. The red flags were there, I just think you overlooked several because of the "buzz words" and "assumptions" that come along with them (and dat ass?). I'm sorry you had to deal with this situation, but I hope you learned more than "don't trust anyone" from it. There's no such thing as a bad experience in life, so long as you learn from it.

I agree with the the stealing from her church part. This is a person who sees other people as opportunities.

Quote: avenged43

Thats crazy.... Hopefully she isn't stealing from the church but I honestly didn't even want to pursue my money in small claims court yet alone make that kind of acquisition..

If there is this code of honor thing among gamblers or the poor honest people that wouldn't steal, then you have an obligation to turn this faux preacher in, or you are enabling the con.

What do you feel/think? If she would steal your money, she would steal her flocks money as well, imo. It's on you now, like it or not.

Quote: Dieter

Very good point.

Sure, I loan gambling-friends money, but I also have their phone numbers (which it sounds like you had), know what car they drive and their license plate and where they usually park at the casino, and where they live, and not unusually where their parents live. Probably have a good idea of any pending court cases against them, too.

Not just where they say they live, mind, but I've often stopped by to drop things off.

I'm harder to disappear from, I guess.



Edited: tpyo

I know her address, I have text evidence, I know her vehicle / tag.... I choose to drop it on my own accord because like others have stated, small claims will get me an IOU for a life time which is a waste of my time and effort (since its less then 5000) . I also am mature enough to forgive her and just learn to not trust anyone anymore because the world is full of a bunch of degenerate assholes.... I am not sweating the cash, just hate knowing what monsters some people allow themselves to become while in a casino, its quite pitiful.... I thought about taking it to small claims and taking it to the local paper but either way was due to vengeance not so much me needing the money.... I sleep better at night knowing I forgave her and learned from my mistake and moved on rather then ruining her name or getting back at her just for the sake of revenge =/

Quote: Romes

5) Just my personal opinion, but I hope this doesn't scar you from ever helping someone out (when they actually need it).

She's an impulsive irrational gambler and in "hanging out" with you (sleeping together more than likely) she found herself a $3k line of credit.

Nah like I said if somone truly needs it I will GIVE it to them, with no expectation of having it returned. 95% of my friends have been with me through hell and back in the last 15 years and my family is... well my family! If anyone of them actually needed money I wouldn't think twice about giving it to them to keep. and for the 2nd part.... I am a young handsome male and shes a married sixty year old preacher.... DEFINITELY no physical attractions between us... lol

You need to demand repayment. Not expect it, but demand it nonetheless. Send her a letter demanding that she make good on her promise. Don't simply walk away without trying to collect. I'm not saying that she will respond at all, but you might as well be the squeaky wheel.

If she gives you no answer, I would consider reporting her to church authorities. I'm sorry, but charities are way to susceptible to being ripped off because their procedures end up lax to the point that money is not well accounted for, etc. She has a gambling problem--limiting out her credit cards--and experience would teach us that people like that don't stop on their own. People with access to money that isn't theirs often take it.

She may be a vet and a pastor. She may not be doing anything wrong, which is why I would send a couple of letter to her first. Those two designations don't mean that she is honest. I see former generals advertising things like a mortgage company that promises to help vets and then read the reviews of them being ripoff joints that take people for a ride. Being a vet or a pastor is admirable but it doesn't make one a saint.

Help prevent her from getting the money from another person. That other person may need it worse than you do.

Quote: RonC

You need to demand repayment. Not expect it, but demand it nonetheless. Send her a letter demanding that she make good on her promise. Don't simply walk away without trying to collect. I'm not saying that she will respond at all, but you might as well be the squeaky wheel.

If she gives you no answer, I would consider reporting her to church authorities. I'm sorry, but charities are way to susceptible to being ripped off because their procedures end up lax to the point that money is not well accounted for, etc. She has a gambling problem--limiting out her credit cards--and experience would teach us that people like that don't stop on their own. People with access to money that isn't theirs often take it.

She may be a vet and a pastor. She may not be doing anything wrong, which is why I would send a couple of letter to her first. Those two designations don't mean that she is honest. I see former generals advertising things like a mortgage company that promises to help vets and then read the reviews of them being ripoff joints that take people for a ride. Being a vet or a pastor is admirable but it doesn't make one a saint.

Help prevent her from getting the money from another person. That other person may need it worse than you do.

To add to RonC's post, it could very well be that a letter and/or subsequent actions described above may start her on the path to her getting some help for her problem. It may cause her to stop and think what her addiction is doing to her and those around her.

Yes, I'll admit that there may be a slim chance of this happening, but to do nothing is to enable her. If she sees no repercussions from her actions this time, it will only embolden her to do the same or worse to the next person.

Quote: avenged43

...and for the 2nd part.... I am a young handsome male and shes a married sixty year old preacher.... DEFINITELY no physical attractions between us... lol

While I'll "tentatively" believe your answer (I get it, hush hush =P), man, that sucks $3k doesn't even get a gum job these days...

Glad to know you'd still help someone if they were 'truly' in need... and not just in need of another buy in lol. Oh, I forgot another question. When you were passing her $1k at a time, I assume you were playing with her? Was she just betting/playing like a ploppy? I don't think I'd have it in myself to give someone money (even if it was really a loan) just to watch them piss it away playing a negative game. I'd probably tell them it's for their own good that I'm not giving them any money to play =p.

I am sorry this happened to you. Please allow me to share some insight.

If I read your post correctly - there were times when she repaid you, correct? My suspicion is that the resource she previously used for cash dried up. I also suspect that if she had the surplus funds, she would have repaid you.

" I have no hard feelings but if I have a friend in need of money every again it will be a gift, with no expectation of them returning it. "

I think this is the healthiest attitude. But - bear in mind the old saying, "A friend in need is a friend, indeed".

This woman was a friend for 2 years. I think perhaps, you're more bothered about the betrayal than the cash - although I know 3 grand doesn't just drop in anyone's lap as a rule.

For me - I've done some crazy things like buy a car for an old friend who needed one - just a couple grand, from the winnings of an 11k royal flush ($2 vp, max coins played) Ordinarily, I'd probably never do something like that.

You have a good heart - but if I may suggest - protect it a little bit better. You're not doing anyone any favors if they lack the bankroll to keep playing.

This is one of the reasons why I personally only lend money to people I know and not acquaintances in the casino, I did lend money to a former co-worker and it took them 2 years to pay it back, after many calls , texts and unexpected visits at their new job.

The best approach to recover your money would be to remain diligent and constantly in contact. If you have their number , text them every week and follow up with a call. If you know where they live/work, make a surprise visit to let them know you are serious. It may seem like harrassment in their eyes, but it will get the point across that you are not giving up on getting your money back.

Obviously don't be threatening or vulgar, just give the impression that you are intent on recovering the funds and will not simply forgive & forget!

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Quote: BedWetterBetter

This is one of the reasons why I personally only lend money to people I know and not acquaintances in the casino, I did lend money to a former co-worker and it took them 2 years to pay it back, after many calls , texts and unexpected visits at their new job.

The best approach to recover your money would be to remain diligent and constantly in contact. If you have their number , text them every week and follow up with a call. If you know where they live/work, make a surprise visit to let them know you are serious. It may seem like harrassment in their eyes, but it will get the point across that you are not giving up on getting your money back.

Obviously don't be threatening or vulgar, just give the impression that you are intent on recovering the funds and will not simply forgive & forget!

I agree with this. Lending money SHOULD be a beneficial transaction for both parties. I like lending money because the other party gets the $ they need, and I get interest. BUT you have to make sure they pay back and specify the terms for payment. I like installment plans. It is a hassle to maintain a loan, though. Most people don't want to be bothered.

I would never lend money for gambling.

Quote: teddys

I agree with this. Lending money SHOULD be a beneficial transaction for both parties. I like lending money because the other party gets the $ they need, and I get interest. BUT you have to make sure they pay back and specify the terms for payment. I like installment plans. It is a hassle to maintain a loan, though. Most people don't want to be bothered.

I would never lend money for gambling.

If everything is on the up and up, with interest charged on an installment plan, you can even take it off your taxes if they just don't pay.

However, I understand that most people screw this up in the following ways:

* they don't report the interest on their taxes as income when they were receiving it. This is the first thing the IRS checks

* the interest rate was "too friendly", which the IRS will reject

* no serious attempt to collect the money was made. Not sure if that means small claims court.

I'm sure there are other traps to fall in too

I'm not savvy on the spam- can anyone explain to me what the point of posting that stuff is

heh, don't be a doormat. go to her church and ask her for the money. if she doesn't then announce to the church that she owes you $3000 and that they should be very careful with her. i would also leave bad reviews on her business on yelp afterwards if she doesn't pay.

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I'm not savvy on the spam- can anyone explain to me what the point of posting that stuff is

The spammer gets paid if you click the link.

Hmmmm wow thanks I really was unaware of that. What kind of money are we talking dollars or fractions of a cent?

It is possible that something bad could have happened to her. I remember reading somewhere where a woman loaned her friend money, and the friend never paid her back. The woman was furious, but soon found out her friend had ended up in a coma shortly after getting the loaned money. So, you never know what happened to the Gambler friend.

Quote: avenged43

Thats crazy.... Hopefully she isn't stealing from the church but I honestly didn't even want to pursue my money in small claims court yet alone make that kind of acquisition..

Quote: James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

An AC degenerated gambler (Giblin) defrauded 132 women out of a total of $320,241 and gambled the money away. Giblin was jailed and ordered to stop gambling.

Why were 132 women fooled & defrauded? An obvious reason was that...the first 32 victimized women would not turn him in. As a result, 100 more women were defrauded by the same scammer.

If you don't turn in the lady pastor/scammer, 100 more guys would be fooled and defrauded.



Con man Patrick Giblin, released from prison after scamming 132 women, sentenced to 2 years for more violations

Yeah I would at least let it be known this lady is a scammer, and won't honor her debts. Even if you don't get the money back at least you let people know in the future not to deal with this person. People like this make gamblers look bad.

Quote: djatc

Yeah I would at least let it be known this lady is a scammer, and won't honor her debts. Even if you don't get the money back at least you let people know in the future not to deal with this person. People like this make gamblers look bad.

I've heard that 85% of personal loans are not repaid.
Probably why some suggest "Don't lend money to friends if you want to keep the friendship".

In my experience, 85% is about right.
Almost 100% of my loans to women have not been paid back (1 exception).

Mitchell

Your percentages overall seem completely arbitrary numbers with no rhyme or reason behind them

Never trust a ho

Quote: mamat

I've heard that 85% of personal loans are not repaid.
Probably why some suggest "Don't lend money to friends if you want to keep the friendship".

In my experience, 85% is about right.
Almost 100% of my loans to women have not been paid back (1 exception).

Mitchell

I was dating a girl. I loaned her my cell phone. She broke it on purpose. I sued her. I won. Never trust a ho.