jayjasonjay
jayjasonjay
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May 6th, 2015 at 5:30:58 PM permalink
After a recent trip to wendover i would like to know peoples opinions on dealers' tactics. Because when i first got there i was killing it. The dealer rotations seemed normal (a dealer change every 30 or so minutes) and after the second dealer i was up over double my original money. Then a third dealer came in and everything went to shit. This one stayed at the table for over an hour and nobody won big. Was it simply that my luck ran out? Was he a cheating dealer? Did the casino send this demon of a dealer in because they saw i was winning and why would they have him stay so long instead of rotating in an different dealer like normal? I would like to know if casinos/dealers cheat or use tactics like this to screw with a winning player. Thanks
TriathlonTodd
TriathlonTodd
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May 6th, 2015 at 5:46:37 PM permalink
There are many reasons why dealers will be changed throughout the night, and precious few of them have to do with the players. You'll get a lot of dealer changes around shift change time, not all dealers can deal all games so the ones with more game knowledge will get moved more as games are opened, later at night games are being shut down and certain dealers get to go home, sometimes a dealer asks to go home early because they have other events going on, etc. These things happen all the time, they aren't a big deal. But most of the time a dealer change occurs, it is because the dealer is due for a break.

You likely just had bad luck during that period of time. The vast majority of dealers do not cheat. All dealers occasionally make mistakes (even the ones at Caesar's, Bellagio, etc), we're not trying to cheat you. The casino doesn't need to cheat you. The casino has the power of statistics on their side.
Minty
Minty
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May 6th, 2015 at 5:48:46 PM permalink
Yup, there isn't any way that a new dealer will impact your game just by switching in. Everyone has trips that don't go well, it's part of gambling. In most cases you'd have to play for many hundreds, if not, thousands of hours to determine if there is cheating going on.
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1BB
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May 6th, 2015 at 5:49:40 PM permalink
It is highly unlikely that the casino would cheat. There's too much to lose and not a lot to gain. A dealer may cheat for a number of reasons but would be more apt to cheat the house, again very unlikely.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
jayjasonjay
jayjasonjay
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May 6th, 2015 at 6:04:22 PM permalink
Ok thanks for the responses. It just seemed fishy that my bad luck happened to be on the guy that dealt at the table for over an hour while the others were only about 30 min each. So theres no regulations on how long or short a dealer can stay at a table? I thought there was. I guess next time my luck turns south ill go to a different table
TriathlonTodd
TriathlonTodd
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May 6th, 2015 at 6:07:43 PM permalink
There are no regulatory restrictions placed, there are just corporate guidelines on how long a dealer should be on the floor before getting a break. Most places in Vegas use 1 hour, but many places around the country use 1 hour & 20 minutes. Exceptions are plentiful though.
RS
RS
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May 6th, 2015 at 6:52:42 PM permalink
I suspect dealers were doing hours. When you were winning and having a blast, it felt like 30 minutes. When the "demon dealer from hell" dealt, he was also there for 60 minutes...but felt like much longer 'cuz you were getting blown up.

I've never heard of a store having a rotation/push based off of 30-minute intervals.



Yeah, they almost never change dealers because someone is winning. If there's a big player and he's up $50K, they might switch out a dealer if the boss is a retard (this isn't too uncommon).

But it's usually because someone gets sick or calls in or they get an EO. Then rotation is based on who can deal what, their skill, etc. You're not going to put a roulette-learning dealer on a game with chunky green action.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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May 6th, 2015 at 7:43:55 PM permalink
Preferential shuffling isnt uncommon at the non peppermill wendover properties.
Venthus
Venthus
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May 6th, 2015 at 8:08:36 PM permalink
I've seen dealers called in to handle specific situations before; down at Rincon, there was a PGP dealer who once complained to me that he was called in on his day off to take care of a player doing hands in the low thousands.

And I don't remember where this was, but I once had a double deck game that had five dealers in two hands.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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May 6th, 2015 at 8:09:04 PM permalink
Quote: jayjasonjay

After a recent trip to wendover i would like to know peoples opinions on dealers' tactics. Because when i first got there i was killing it. The dealer rotations seemed normal (a dealer change every 30 or so minutes) and after the second dealer i was up over double my original money. Then a third dealer came in and everything went to shit. This one stayed at the table for over an hour and nobody won big. Was it simply that my luck ran out? Was he a cheating dealer? Did the casino send this demon of a dealer in because they saw i was winning and why would they have him stay so long instead of rotating in an different dealer like normal? I would like to know if casinos/dealers cheat or use tactics like this to screw with a winning player. Thanks



Was it a pitch game? If so, look for peeking and second dealing.
jayjasonjay
jayjasonjay
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May 6th, 2015 at 8:20:33 PM permalink
Yes. Its single deck pitch at the rainbow. Ive been doing some research on peeking and second dealing. Im heading there again this weekend and im going to be a lot more aware and observant to see if i can see anything suspicious. Although i have to admit that after researching ways a dealer can cheat, i doubt that was the case. I likely just had a bad luck streak with a new dealer. Whats your guys' advice on what to do during a bad luck streak? just play minimum bet for a while? Go to a different table? Or take a break until a new dealer arrives?
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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May 6th, 2015 at 8:57:02 PM permalink
Quote: jayjasonjay

Yes. Its single deck pitch at the rainbow. Ive been doing some research on peeking and second dealing. Im heading there again this weekend and im going to be a lot more aware and observant to see if i can see anything suspicious. Although i have to admit that after researching ways a dealer can cheat, i doubt that was the case. I likely just had a bad luck streak with a new dealer. Whats your guys' advice on what to do during a bad luck streak? just play minimum bet for a while? Go to a different table? Or take a break until a new dealer arrives?



I've had streaks that were terrible and I hung in there and it reversed to be positive even more so. Streaks are only streaks in retrospect.

I know what to look for in second deals and peeking and have never seen it. Of course if they are really good you'll only see suspicious activity, nothing concrete. I once had a dealer at Binion's who appeared to be using his belt buckle as a shiner in a SD game. He may have been practicing since I didn't see tells that he was using information.

But once I had a knockout at Lady Luck about 2000. It was pretty obvious she knew the score. If a dealer knows what they're doing it is almost impossible for their body language to not express what they koow. I think they almost have a need to to express they know what they know because they want acknowledgement for their arcane knowledge. Likewise if they look at me they know I know and I know they know. We are not as complicated as we may appear.

Call it a professional courtesy. You have just been asked to not play there anymore.
RS
RS
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May 7th, 2015 at 5:49:22 AM permalink
Quote: Venthus

I've seen dealers called in to handle specific situations before; down at Rincon, there was a PGP dealer who once complained to me that he was called in on his day off to take care of a player doing hands in the low thousands.

And I don't remember where this was, but I once had a double deck game that had five dealers in two hands.



Maybe the player requested the dealer because he liked him. It's not uncommon.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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May 7th, 2015 at 8:41:42 AM permalink
Quote: jayjasonjay

So theres no regulations on how long or short a dealer can stay at a table? I thought there was.

Maybe in your state, but normally no gaming regs for that.

Of course, there might be labor laws covering standing jobs, or it might be covered in the union contract, but not gaming.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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May 7th, 2015 at 9:51:36 AM permalink
Quote: RS

I suspect dealers were doing hours. When you were winning and having a blast, it felt like 30 minutes. When the "demon dealer from hell" dealt, he was also there for 60 minutes...but felt like much longer 'cuz you were getting blown up.

I've never heard of a store having a rotation/push based off of 30-minute intervals.



Yeah, they almost never change dealers because someone is winning. If there's a big player and he's up $50K, they might switch out a dealer if the boss is a retard (this isn't too uncommon).

But it's usually because someone gets sick or calls in or they get an EO. Then rotation is based on who can deal what, their skill, etc. You're not going to put a roulette-learning dealer on a game with chunky green action.



Craps and Poker rotations seem to be quicker than 60 minutes. I suppose it has to do with amount of activity required to run a particular game.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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May 7th, 2015 at 10:01:56 AM permalink
Quote: RS



I've never heard of a store having a rotation/push based off of 30-minute intervals.



.



I'm playing a store this week where dealers have 30 minute rounds. They keep their own tokes, so rubber band two random tables then break.

But I imagine the seeming like 30 minutes the OP is referencing is the 20 minutes of the breaker. In casinos where the dealers return to the same table, one dealer for every 3-4 tables, sometimes only 2 if they are over staffed, will work 20 minutes at each of those tables while the primary dealer takes their break.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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May 7th, 2015 at 10:07:20 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Craps and Poker rotations seem to be quicker than 60 minutes. I suppose it has to do with amount of activity required to runt a particular game.

Craps is usually 20 minutes on stick, 40 on base, so still an hour on the same table.

Poker is probably because they keep their own tokes. Games/ casinos where dealers keep their own generally make it a point to have dealers randomly deal many different tables or dealers would bitch about favoritism or what tables they are being placed on affecting their ability to make money.
Dicenor33
Dicenor33
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May 7th, 2015 at 10:49:42 AM permalink
Should open another Walmart instead of all of so called casinos.
PGBuster
PGBuster
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May 13th, 2015 at 12:41:04 PM permalink
In Colorado, this is the norm, as every house in Black Hawk/Central City with the exception of one is a keep your own joint.
21forme
21forme
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May 13th, 2015 at 4:27:50 PM permalink
Dealers may cheat, and it may be the dealer on his own (with a confederate) and not for the casino.

Suppose the dealer is cheating to benefit a specific player with whom he's in cahoots. To prevent his numbers from appearing out of sync with other dealers, he may cheat you to make up the shortfall for the house.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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May 13th, 2015 at 5:15:41 PM permalink
The Oklahoma casino I played (Downstream Resort) was keep-your-own, and the rotation was follow-me, with 20 or 30 minutes/table, rotating in a single pit (7-8 tables of different carnival games). I saw 4-5 dealers every 2 hours. A couple times, as I changed games, I caught up with a dealer, then his/her replacements followed in order I'd seen them at the other table.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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