Need Index numbers from HiLo for Double Deck.

I'm currently in the process of switching to the HiLo system and I mostly play Double Deck, H17, DA2, DAS upto 4 hands, No Surrender. Ideally I would like to know the index plays for -6 to +6 for this game. I18 for this game would be fine as well. Could someone please provide this information for me please? Is there a computer program that lists the index plays for number of decks and rules and counting system used? Thank you for your help.

You're switching to HiLo? What were you using before?

CVCX and CVBJ have index numbers. Or look online.

Hi-Lo 2D H17 DAS NS Basic Strategy Deviations:
Take Insurance at +3
8 dbls against 4 (+5)
8 dbls against 5 (+3)
8 dbls against 6 (+1)
9 dbls against 2 (+1)
9 hits against 3 (-1)
9 hits against 4 (-3)
9 hits against 5 (-5)
9 dbls against 7 (+3)
10 hits against 8 (-5)
10 hits against 9 (-2)
10 dbls against 10 (+4)
10 dbls against Ace (+3)
11 hits against 9 (-5)
11 hits against 10 (-5)
11 dbls against Ace (0)
12 stands against 2 (+3)
12 stands against 3 (+1)
12 hits against 4 (0)
12 hits against 5 (-2)
12 hits against 6 (-4)
13 hits against 2 (-1)
13 hits against 3 (-3)
13 hits against 4 (-5)
13 hits against 5 (-5)
14 hits against 2 (-4)
15 stands against 10 (+4)
15 stands against Ace (+5)
16 stands against 9 (+5)
16 stands against 10 (0)
16 stands against Ace (+3)

There are more if you want the deviations for splits & soft hands (most players don't). Would you like me to provide them?

Quote: theOmega623

9 dbls against 2 (+1)

iirc it's standard BS to double 9 against 2 in a DD game

I don't use HiLo so I'm not 100% certain on this. But I don't believe HiLo indexes change with the number of decks. The index number is the true count, which is the running count divided by the number of decks remaining.

Quote: RS

You're switching to HiLo? What were you using before?

CVCX and CVBJ have index numbers. Or look online.

I'd like to know as well. Although it wasn't asked, I think I'd be remiss not to point out that Hi-Lo is not the best count for double deck. If a change is being made then perhaps this is a good time to look into something else.

My first and only counting system that I used was the Red 7 count.

I ordered Play Blackjack Like the Pros by Kevin Blackwood. I'll peek at Hi Opt 1 for curiosity.

Thank you everyone for the info and support. This community exceeded my expectations once again.

Wino, if you're thinking about learning HiLo for double-deck play......let me recommend you go a step further and learn a slightly more difficult count but also stronger.

Lots of times, people look at different counting systems and compare EV and difficulty. Both are definitely necessary to take into consideration, but, I think people tend to overestimate the strength of EV when deciding a count.

Better yet, you should look at numbers like N0, variance/std dev, SCORE, etc.

The main problem with HiLo is that it values all 2-6's equally (and Tens and Aces equally as well). This is a bit of a problem, especially when playing single or double deck games, as 2's and 6's are not equal (they have significantly different EORs).

If the cards were evenly distributed in the shoe, then yeah, HiLo would work fine -- but remember, you gain your edge when the cards are NOT evenly distributed throughout the shoe. You gain an edge when they are distributed unequally (little cards up front, aces/faces in the back).


In my opinion, if you're ONLY going to play single/double deck, you should learn something like HiOptII w/ ASC (Ace Side Count). If you're going to play primarily pitch games and play a little shoe games (or might play shoes in the future), then learn something like the Zen count. Personally, I like Zen count -- it's strong enough for pitch games but is also easy enough for shoe games. Granted, it is more difficult than HiLo, but not significantly. If I were you, I'd learn Zen.



But really -- buy CVCX, it's like $100 max. Run a bunch of sims using different counts, different games/rules/spreads/etc. Look at numbers like EV/hour, N0, and SCORE. IMO, that's the best way to determine which counting system you should learn.

Using the Hi-Lo counting system playing a double-deck game you should only double 9 against a dealer 2 if the true count is +1 or greater. (The reason being that standard basic strategy for this play says to double 9 vs 2 because it takes composition into consideration.) If you are counting, only double 9 vs 2 at +1 or greater but if you are not counting then double 9 vs 2 all the time.

I will also add that if you are playing only double deck it would be extremely beneficial to upgrade to a level 2 counting system such as Zen, AOII, or HOII (I personally use AOII with an ace side count adjustment for betting). These counting systems naturally have a much higher playing efficiency / Insurance Correlation than Hi-Lo & will increase your +EV by quite a bit due to the increased accuracy of playing decisions. If you decide you would like to upgrade to one of these systems I would be happy to provide the basic strategy deviations for you (for any one of them). Hope this helps!

The insurance indexes for Hi-Lo are:
1D: 1.4
2D: 2.4
6D: 3.0

Since you're playing DD, insure at 2.4 or higher.

Quarter deck played: insure at RC 5 or more
Half deck played: insure at RC 4 or more
Three quarter deck played: insure at RC 3 or more

So if I am a guy who likes to play everything, then I should learn zen? I pretty much do 40% 6d, 40% dd, 20% 8d. I very recently started playing single deck. I like it, but probably won't be playing as often as the others due to availability.

Quote: Avincow

So if I am a guy who likes to play everything, then I should learn zen? I pretty much do 40% 6d, 40% dd, 20% 8d. I very recently started playing single deck. I like it, but probably won't be playing as often as the others due to availability.

I recommend Zen for that style of play.

IMO, the great thing of increasing BC and PE is not in the increase in EV, but the reduction in N0.

Quote: Shadowless

The insurance indexes for Hi-Lo are:
1D: 1.4
2D: 2.4
6D: 3.0

Since you're playing DD, insure at 2.4 or higher.

Quarter deck played: insure at RC 5 or more
Half deck played: insure at RC 4 or more
Three quarter deck played: insure at RC 3 or more

Welcome to the forum, shadowless, and thanks for providing the indexes!

Can anyone provide the HiLo index numbers for Double Deck, H17, DA2, DAS, and *surrender is offered*?

Also, index numbers for splits and soft hands?

Thanks!