kimura
kimura
Joined: Jul 3, 2014
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February 16th, 2015 at 1:00:21 PM permalink
let's say for some reason I want to bet all of my money at once, and I know I have an advantage. what advantage do I loose then if I can't split/double?
arcticfun
arcticfun
Joined: Oct 2, 2013
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February 16th, 2015 at 1:14:37 PM permalink
Even at a TC of +3, the probability of winning a hand is less than 50%. The edge over the house comes from splitting, doubling, and blackjacks. So, in every way, it is a bad play. When on tilt and you absolutely can't stop yourself from betting, bet at most 1/3 of what you have left. That allows for one split and one double.
ahiromu
ahiromu
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February 16th, 2015 at 1:18:36 PM permalink
http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/rule-variations/

Play may not double nor split: -1.91%. It isn't that bad, but you should always have the cash to double or split if necessary.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Romes
Romes
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February 16th, 2015 at 1:27:50 PM permalink
Quote: kimura

let's say for some reason I want to bet all of my money at once, and I know I have an advantage. what advantage do I loose then if I can't split/double?


As others have stated, you should never be betting everything on one hand. Some say bet half, leaving a split or double, but I agree with articfun... 1/3rd. This leaves a split and a double. The most painful thing to do as a counter is to walk away from a positive count, or not be able to split/double because you don't have any more money. If you plan and prepare properly, this should pretty much never happen.

Just a friendly suggestion... Through a few of your posts so far it looks as though you're planning on taking a shot at card counting. I would very strongly like to recommend a couple things. 1) please do not go play just yet. It's going to be hard to not go try out your new found skill, but what no one (myself included) realize when they start is that you're not actually playing with an advantage if you're not putting all the pieces of the puzzle together properly, and more importantly perfectly. Basic strategy, counting, indexes, game rules, etc, etc, etc ALL need to be evaluated and performed perfectly in order to have a winning game. If you are off on any of the above then you're the best kind of sucker a casino could hope for... One that 'thinks' he has an advantage. 2) Please go read my 101 level A-Z Counting Cards in Blackjack thread. That should answer a LOT of your beginner questions that have been asked a lot of times over on the forums. I tried to compile a bunch of typical questions/answers/etc all in one spot. Please feel free to post more questions in that thread if you have more!
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
ahiromu
ahiromu
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February 16th, 2015 at 1:31:41 PM permalink
Just have the cash to double or split (that you're willing to part with). It isn't necessary to have the chips in front of you.

If you aren't ready to double or split a hand in blackjack you are playing an extremely stupid hand. I've done it before, I'm not saying you're a stupid person if you do it, I'm saying it's a stupid and avoidable mistake.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
kimura
kimura
Joined: Jul 3, 2014
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February 16th, 2015 at 2:00:42 PM permalink
Thks Romes and everybody else for your answers. No in fact I'm more of an expert in card counting if you like, know all the indexes and basic strategy I know it better than my english and apply it 100% of the time unless I'm on the index numbers. So I know when I have an advantage, but it doesn't mean that I have an overall advantage. The piece of the puzzle I miss is self control lol so that's everything. I will always apply basic strategy but I may be betting too much at a low count. That's why I am going see this problem with a gambling addiction expert to see if I have a hope in enjoying advantage play one day or if my only choice is simply quitting altogether.

Ok, let's suppose the count is +6, so if I bet half of my bankroll, let's say 200 dollars, than I have a 3% advantage on 200, that is on average 6 dollars in the long run. If I bet 400, all of my money, than I will have 1.1% advantage so yeah doesn't seem a good idea.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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February 16th, 2015 at 2:20:03 PM permalink
Quote: kimura

Thks Romes and everybody else for your answers. No in fact I'm more of an expert in card counting if you like, know all the indexes and basic strategy I know it better than my english and apply it 100% of the time unless I'm on the index numbers. So I know when I have an advantage, but it doesn't mean that I have an overall advantage. The piece of the puzzle I miss is self control lol so that's everything. I will always apply basic strategy but I may be betting too much at a low count. That's why I am going see this problem with a gambling addiction expert to see if I have a hope in enjoying advantage play one day or if my only choice is simply quitting altogether.

Ok, let's suppose the count is +6, so if I bet half of my bankroll, let's say 200 dollars, than I have a 3% advantage on 200, that is on average 6 dollars in the long run. If I bet 400, all of my money, than I will have 1.1% advantage so yeah doesn't seem a good idea.


There's a lot that's concerning here... I'm glad you're seeking help since you admittedly have self control issues. It's the least AP play you can do to bet what you can't afford to lose. I hope you indeed shy away from the tables while you sort this issue out as well.

After that, I'm a bit concerned you think you're a skilled counter, when it doesn't appear as though you have all of your numbers together. Given a list of rules for a game, can you provide me with: true count frequencies, bet spread, gain per hand, total gain, average bet, and long run per hour average? In my opinion, these are nonnegotiable numbers that must be easily provided and completely understood before sitting down at any game. Heck, even when I play craps I can provide you with all of the above similar information.

Next, and one of the most important/forgotten items for any AP is bankroll management. You should never find yourself in a situation where you'd have to ask the above question. With proper bankroll management and planning you should realistically almost never be put in this situation. I really hope when you say "bet half of my bankroll" up top, you were referring to your "trip" or "session" bankroll. It often amazes people that to play a $5 game properly, you need a $10,000 bankroll. This can often be derived from your desired betting spread (again another reason why you need to know your spread, average bet, etc, etc).

Lastly, at what game when the TC = +6 do you have a 3% advantage? That would mean there's a 0% house edge off the top, which is almost never the case. Most common rules allot for a .35%-.66% house edge off the top, completely eradicating the advantage one would get from a TC +1. Thus, at TC +6, you'd be more like a 2.5% advantage. This is all explained in my thread, how to calculate each and every one of these numbers, etc.

We all do it. I was guilty of it when I started. Don't "think" you have a winning game, know you have a winning game. Best of luck to you with your addiction; I hope you find the answers you need.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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February 16th, 2015 at 5:22:11 PM permalink
Quote: kimura

The piece of the puzzle I miss is self control lol



Self control is the most important part.
May the cards fall in your favor.
kimura
kimura
Joined: Jul 3, 2014
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February 18th, 2015 at 2:05:58 AM permalink
Romes:
I know all the answers but the true count frequencies. On this point you are completely wrong I know when I have an advantage. And saying I am an expert in card counting doesn't mean I am a professional (lacking bankroll, time, and self control). I know most of the time I walk away from those tables what advantage I had on my big bets. My bet spread is 1-100 and I don't have to stick to your rules of bet spreads. I just have to bet big when I have an advantage. The very few times I don't know what advantage I had are the times when I lose control and that's enough to lose all the edge for me.

As for my question here it doesn't concern betting all the money when card counting but another situation that I do not want to expose here.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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February 18th, 2015 at 3:12:05 AM permalink
Obviously you would bet a match play even if you didn't have enough money to double.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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