Kellynbnf
• Posts: 199
Joined: May 5, 2010
June 22nd, 2010 at 1:01:45 PM permalink
If I'm correct (under the same rules with the soft 17 one being the only variable) it appears that the Basic Strategy for upcards of 7-10 will always be the same regardless of what the dealer doesn on soft 17. With the aforementioned upcards it is impossible for the dealer to attain a soft 17 at any point in the play of his/her hand (if any aces are present the hand would be either hard or have a soft value of at least 18), and thus the EV of said hands will be the same whether it's S17 or H17 for the dealer.

As for which upcards' EV are the most affected by the soft 17 rule, the ace appears to be the most affected for obvious reasons followed by 6 (in that case an ace in the hole would give the dealer a soft 17). The other low cards (2-5) are also affected but not as much (in those cases the dealer cannot have a soft 17 on his/her first two cards but can end up drawing to one).
Wizard
• Posts: 26744
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
June 22nd, 2010 at 11:54:31 PM permalink
That all looks correct to me.

I think the two most important plays that depend on the H17/S17 rule, assuming 4-8 decks, are:

Player 11 vs A (H17=double, S17=hit)
Player 17 vs A (H17=surrender, S17=stand)
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
FleaStiff
• Posts: 14484
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:49:28 AM permalink
No matter which practice site I am playing at, I always set the option for Hitting on a soft 17 because that seems to be what I encounter in various casinos these days. The local Indian casinos are all Hit on Soft 17. Even one guy sitting all alone at a 300 table was still playing at Hit on Soft 17 rules. I admit its great to know what to do at the more advantageous Dealer Draws to 16 and must stand on all 17s but where do you find such games now? In Florida, the Seminoles have a monopoly. Why should they ever stand on a soft 17?
Kellynbnf
• Posts: 199
Joined: May 5, 2010
June 23rd, 2010 at 10:32:29 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

That all looks correct to me.

I think the two most important plays that depend on the H17/S17 rule, assuming 4-8 decks, are:

Player 11 vs A (H17=double, S17=hit)
Player 17 vs A (H17=surrender, S17=hit)

Don't you mean that you should STAND (not hit) on 17 vs. A with S17?
Kellynbnf
• Posts: 199
Joined: May 5, 2010
June 23rd, 2010 at 10:33:05 AM permalink
Post made by mistake (I accidentally requoted my post instead of editing it).
DrEntropy
• Posts: 199
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
June 26th, 2010 at 8:22:46 AM permalink
My "shortcut" is to use only the S17 strategy, even if playing H17. The difference in house edge is just not worth learning multiple strategies. For example, hitting 11 vs. A instead of doubling will cost you 3 cents per 10 dollars bet on average (Using the Wizard Of Odds tables). I don't have the reference, and perhaps the wizard can check, but I remember reading that overall cost for playing S17 strategy at a H17 table is only ~.005% vs using the correct strategy. So I don't bother with that! Much bigger impact is finding an S17 table to play at!
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
Wizard