Dieter
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Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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February 3rd, 2015 at 2:58:17 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

I know this has come up here before. How often do you make this play, and have you always been allowed to do it? I can definitely see a pit boss saying "No, you have a blackjack, your option is even money."



The technically correct way to settle it:
Push the main bet.
Pay the insurance bet at 2:1.

If you're offered even money on a 6:5 table (why are you playing a 6:5 table?), take it.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Baccaratfrom79
Baccaratfrom79
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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February 3rd, 2015 at 3:57:37 PM permalink
Back in the Atlantic City Bally's Grand days of the 90's, I made two unusual and stupid wagers at BJ. Coming off the big table baccarat game, where there was always a 30-40 min shuffle, I went out of the high limit and on the main floor. At bj I had a hard 17 and I doubled, dealer turned to the pit boss and pit boss knew me and laughed and told her to deal. I got a 3 and pushed, she had a 10 showing. I also doubled on a hard 19 and of course lost. Yes it was dumb but comical. Those were the days.
Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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February 3rd, 2015 at 5:22:29 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

I know this has come up here before. How often do you make this play, and have you always been allowed to do it? I can definitely see a pit boss saying "No, you have a blackjack, your option is even money."



It was a little sweaty feeling. Boss had come over a few hands before and we were talking a little. I had 2 odd bets out. I asked the boss if I could insure for less, and he let me. I didn't feel like breaking chips down, etc. etc. especially with the true-count making the play slightly +EV. Figured I was getting a good amount of EV out of it with some cover. Plus it was hilarious as shit watching the dealer not know what to do.
aceofspades
aceofspades
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
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February 3rd, 2015 at 7:47:35 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

On one hand I was playing third base and I had a 6,7 vs a dealer 10-up. I drew an 8 for 21. The player to my right doubled on 10 (not warranted by the count). So the dealer turns over his down-card and revels an ace for a natural. (I donít remember if the dealer checked for blackjack and he didnít remember either.) The pit boss came over and pushed my hand and gave the player that doubled down back his double down bet and only kept his original wager (he didnít have a total of 21 after the double down).




This happened to me at Revel - they took over 30 minutes to figure it out (they pushed my double and kept my original bet) ó it annoyed me that they would waste so much time and not just let my bet ride for the next hand ó annoyed the lady at the table with me so much she left to go to the Borgata (she was playing $1k/hand)

Bob Dancer andRichard Munchkin discussed it on GWAE and said I was "taking a shot"

Revel's VP eventually called my room and gave me the $100 chip back and deemed it "customer appreciation"
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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February 3rd, 2015 at 10:17:58 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I've insured a BJ for less before. Dealer was so wtf confused and what to take/pay/push.



I don't see why there should be any confusion at all. If the dealer has the BJ he pays the insurance wager 2:1 and the blackjacks push. If he doesn't, the insurance wager is lost and the player's blackjack is paid at 3:2. It's all very straight forward.
TriathlonTodd
TriathlonTodd
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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February 3rd, 2015 at 10:29:50 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

I had the same thing happen. I insured a Blackjack by mistake instead of taking even money. It went from dealer to floor to the pitboss and finally the shift manager had to come to figure it out. The floor and pit were trying to tell me that I lost my hand and Because I didn't take even money. Oh and the dealer did have blackjack



I'm confused as to why the dealer and floor were confused. Insuring a blackjack for the full half wager is the same thing as taking even money (on a 3:2 game). I would hope that that would have been covered in the dealer's training.

Assuming a full half wager insurance and a player blackjack:
1) If dealer has blackjack, the main bet pushes and the insurance bets wins 2x on 0.5 = 1 unit win.
2) If dealer does not have blackjack, the main bet gets 1.5 units and the insurance bet loses 0.5, for a net 1 unit win.
3) If the player asks for even money, it is a 1 unit win, the same as either way of taking insurance shown above.

As mentioned above, if you can get an even money payoff on a 6:5 game, take it. Dealers are warned not to pay out even money on 6:5, but it happens.

Just to put some figures on it, here's the math for 6:5, again assuming a full half wager insurance and a player blackjack:
1) If dealer has blackjack, the main bet pushes and the insurance bets wins 2x on 0.5 = 1 unit win.
2) If dealer does not have blackjack, the main bet gets 1.2 units and the insurance bet loses 0.5, for a net 0.7 unit win.
3) If the player asks for even money, it is a guaranteed 1 unit win.

With insurance:
4/13 chance of 1 unit win and 9/13 chance of 0.7 unit win = EV of 0.7923 units.
Without any insurance / even money:
4/13 chance of 0 unit win and 9/13 chance of 1.2 unit win = EV of 0.8308 units.
RS
RS
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February 3rd, 2015 at 11:06:58 PM permalink
Quote:


I'm confused as to why the dealer and floor were confused. Insuring a blackjack for the full half wager is the same thing as taking even money (on a 3:2 game).



Nitpicking here, but insurance for full 1/2 bet is the same as even money, doesn't matter what the payout is. The only difference is in the proper strategy of when to do it.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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February 9th, 2015 at 7:38:27 AM permalink
I don't know why I forgot to mention the following play in my OP: I was playing DD. TC was about +11. I was playing $10-90 but never bet more than the $75 I had out on this +11 hand. Probably because when the round started it wasn't +11, or I didn't want to jump my bet. Anyway, I'm delt a 6,2. Dealer's up-card is a 3. So I double down. Dealer looks at me like, the best you're likely to end up with is 18 (?!). So, the dealer looks at my double down card before he tucks it under my bet and his expression isn't encouraging. He goes on to bust and my double down card is a 6. Well, I guess if you double down and get stiffed you might as well increase the count before the dealer hits.

I don't think I've ever made this play before. I always make the right play no matter how much is out there! (Splitting 10s and such depending on the situation.)

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