theOmega623
theOmega623
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January 13th, 2015 at 10:29:29 AM permalink
Thank you Romes those are all great ideas! This is a strategy I am really starting to lean towards, many of the players on this forum have me thinking that my original $50-$300 spread will most likely get me shut down quickly.
Romes
Romes
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January 13th, 2015 at 10:35:35 AM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

Thank you Romes those are all great ideas! This is a strategy I am really starting to lean towards, many of the players on this forum have me thinking that my original $50-$300 spread will most likely get me shut down quickly.


Just passing along information I once asked about years ago =). Who knows, maybe you'll see Ace at the $100 min tables lol.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
theOmega623
theOmega623
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January 13th, 2015 at 11:42:45 AM permalink
lol. Im certainly going to think on it & choose a strategy but I will let you know how it went when I return. Wish me luck & thanks again for all the help!
theOmega623
theOmega623
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January 13th, 2015 at 12:32:05 PM permalink
By the way, if I do decide to play the $100 min tables (I very well may do that) I have a couple questions if you dont mind. How exactly do comps work when playing blackjack? Do you have to ask for them or do they just let you know when they are comping you something? I have never played for comps before (I have usually tried to avoid player's cards).

Also, if I am playing the $100-$300 spread how much cash would you suggest I bring for the trip? I was thinking $10k but I dont want any trouble with airport security. Do you think $5k-$7k would suffice?
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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January 13th, 2015 at 12:52:45 PM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

By the way, if I do decide to play the $100 min tables (I very well may do that) I have a couple questions if you dont mind. How exactly do comps work when playing blackjack? Do you have to ask for them or do they just let you know when they are comping you something? I have never played for comps before (I have usually tried to avoid player's cards).


There have been whole books about this topic, but the bottom line is that they're not really going to "give" you anything. You will earn points, or "Express Comps" if you're at an MLife property (or "Rewards Credits" if you're at a Total Rewards property), which you can then use on the property for basically anything (food, beverage, hotel, etc.). You will almost certainly be disappointed at how many points/express comps you earn, it is borderline insulting these days. But that's the fact of life in Vegas today.

Other than points/express comps/rewards credits, based on how much you gamble, you may be able to talk to a host at the end of your trip and get some of your hotel bill paid for, but you will absolutely not get this if you do not ask.

And also depending on how much you gamble, you will get better room offers in the future. Especially with Total Rewards properties, this is the #1 perk (IMO) for low/medium rollers: future discounted rooms. In my experience, this benefit is almost nonexistent for MLife properties except for the high rollers.

Quote:

Also, if I am playing the $100-$300 spread how much cash would you suggest I bring for the trip? I was thinking $10k but I dont want any trouble with airport security. Do you think $5k-$7k would suffice?


How long is your trip? Apologies if you already mentioned. This sounds awfully low, for any length of trip though. I wouldn't bring less than $10k personally but that's just a general feeling. I play $25-$300ish in Vegas (mostly shoe games) and for a weekend trip I will bring $10-15K depending on how much cash I have available.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Romes
Romes
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January 13th, 2015 at 1:01:41 PM permalink
Quote: theOmega623

By the way, if I do decide to play the $100 min tables (I very well may do that) I have a couple questions if you dont mind. How exactly do comps work when playing blackjack? Do you have to ask for them or do they just let you know when they are comping you something? I have never played for comps before (I have usually tried to avoid player's cards).

Also, if I am playing the $100-$300 spread how much cash would you suggest I bring for the trip? I was thinking $10k but I dont want any trouble with airport security. Do you think $5k-$7k would suffice?


How Are Comps Calculated?
Comps, at most casinos, are calculated off of your Theoretical Loss (TL), where TL = TotalAction * HouseEdge. This is what they stand to make off you, on average, for the given time frame (TotalAction = AvgBet*NumHands). They "comp" you a subset (usually 20%) of this back to keep players happy. Thus, what most people don't realize, is they're paying for your comps with your own theoretical money. HouseEdge is not the given BS HouseEdge... They plan for most players to be bad. Although in high limit rooms if they skills check you and find you're a BS player, then they might take your HE % down from 2% to 1%, or even .5%.

More broken down (This is the 'on average' scenario):
TL = (Avg Bet)*(NumHands)*(.02)

So, for example, say you play with a $150 average bet for 5 hours... ***EDITED TO CORRECT NUM HANDS***

Hours Played = 5, and high limit rooms are generally the fast dealers and little less crowded tables, so I'm gonna take 100 hands per hour as the average.
Num Hands = 500
Total Action = 150*500 = 75,000
House Edge = 2% (most casinos start about here, as you can probably tell why if you've ever played with a ploppy)

TL = (75000)(.02) = $1500. Thus, if you came back and played 5 hour sessions until the end of time they would expect to make $1500 from you, on average (each time).

Your comps, as stated above are a subset of your TL, usually about 20% (although might be more in high limit room since you also carry a bigger TL). At 20%, your comp value would be $300. This doesn't include personal comps from pit bosses, this is for players cards reward points/comps. If you're playing black and request a buffet, I'm sure a PB will write you a buffet ticket and not charge it to your players card account points.

If you're playing another game, use the exact same method above, but adjust the HouseEdge accordingly for the game (this is why people whom play more casino favored games get comped more).

Other Questions
Yes, you absolutely should ask for comps. There's no down side to asking. If you don't ask, you won't get it. If you do ask, you might get it, and worse case scenario is you don't get it... which is where you were to begin with!

That being said, if you plan to play $100 min, you should absolutely call your casino/hotel and ask for a host. They'll forward you to a host. Simply inform them you're coming in for a trip, you plan on playing black action in blackjack, and ask if that's usually enough to get a room, food, and beverages comp at their establishments. That's called an RFB comp, btw, and a lot of places give those to 'high rollers.'

What might happen though is they'll put you in the system, get you set up, and comp you at the end of your trip, based off your play. So say you give them 10 hours in a weekend, then they might go ahead and comp your room, and other charges to it (food/beverages/etc). If you want the comp upfront, usually you'll have to show them you're not just all talk by wiring them money upfront for your gambling (This would be your $10k). Then, you wouldn't need to carry it through the airport on the way there, and you could take our markers without hitting ATM's/etc.

While I haven't played $100 min before I should be able to simply extrapolate the info you want. If I play a $10 table, I'll usually buy in for $300 or $400. Thus, at a $100 table that would be $3k or $4k. You might want to message AceOfSpades to ask him about how much might get you red flagged. Note that in my buy in I'm also slightly incorporating for a spread much larger than 1-3, where as you'll only be spreading 1-2 most of the time, so you might not need something like $4k.

I can't recall, but I think you'll be okay with $10k in the airport. Are you traveling with anyone else? Give them $5k and thus you are each only carrying $5k. Listen to the podcast with Bob Nersessian on GWAE, they discuss airports and money. Don't put the money in sealed bags (it looks like you're trying to hide it from them which makes you look suspicious). The best thing you can do is fold it, rubber band it (so it's like a square), take it with you in the scanner and hold it in your hands over your head (Richard Munchkin's advice). If you're not traveling with anyone else $10k 'should' be okay since you have a plane ticket to Vegas. Ensure you also have your hotel receipt or any other documentation showing you're clearly going on a vacation and plan to gamble.

Best Advice on High Limit Questions
PM Ace or another known high limit user. They can give you the up to date info you're seeking as well as advice (how much of a buy in might flag you, or get you immediate comps, etc, etc).
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
ahiromu
ahiromu
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January 13th, 2015 at 1:12:38 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

So, for example, say you play with a $150 average bet for 5 hours...

Total Action = 150*5 = 750
Hours Played = 5
House Edge = 2% (most casinos start about here, as you can probably tell why if you've ever played with a ploppy)

TL = (3750)(.02) = 75. Thus, if you came back and played 5 hour sessions until the end of time they would expect to make $75 from you, on average.



Hands per hour will be significantly higher than five, I get that it's an example but need to point that out.
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Romes
Romes
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January 13th, 2015 at 1:21:10 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

Hands per hour will be significantly higher than five, I get that it's an example but need to point that out.


Doh, in my rush you're right I didn't calculate that quite right... I did 5 hours, instead of hands.

Re-Done
So, for example, say you play with a $150 average bet for 5 hours...

Total Action = (Avg Bet)*(Num Hands Played) = (150)*(500) = 75,000
House Edge = 2%

TL = (75000)(.02) = 1500. So they would be willing to comp you (on average) about 20% of that... which is $300.

Yeah, in my haste I thought that was a bit low lol but I'm used to seeing $15 TL comp so I guess I glossed over it.

When you contact a host ahead of time they can set up your base and just say "how many hours do you think you'll play?" If you say 10, they'll run the numbers for 10 hours at just $100 flat betting per hour, which results in TL = (100)*(1000 hands)*(.02) = $2,000. So up front they might be willing to take that at someone face value and comp you 10% per say... thus they'll comp you $200 (which could be a room for a couple nights or something).
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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January 13th, 2015 at 1:45:17 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Your comps, as stated above are a subset of your TL, usually about 20% (although might be more in high limit room since you also carry a bigger TL). At 20%, your comp value would be $300. This doesn't include personal comps from pit bosses, this is for players cards reward points/comps. If you're playing black and request a buffet, I'm sure a PB will write you a buffet ticket and not charge it to your players card account points.


With all due respect, what the EFF are you smoking?!. 20%?!?!!?? IN 2015?? Maybe, MAYBE if you add up points and all incidentals and all host comps and room discounts and EVERYTHING would you get to 20%. But in today's day and age, points you earn on your card are closer to 2% than 20%, especially with Total Rewards and MLife.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
theOmega623
theOmega623
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January 13th, 2015 at 3:17:20 PM permalink
AcesAndEights: My stay will be 3 nights. Thank you for your advice!

Romes: Thank you for showing me the numbers! I will certainly call the hotel tomorrow, ask for a host, & talk to he/she about the comp situation. Ill let you guys know what they tell me. Also, I will take your advice & split $10K between me & my partner (that way we are only carrying $5K each).

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