Dnalorailed
Dnalorailed
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December 11th, 2014 at 9:26:23 AM permalink
No casino allows you to take even money in a 6:5 game. (If a dealer allows it, it is against house policy.)



I don't understand why a casino won't allow you to take even money in a 6:5 game. The chances of having a BJ are the same as in a 3:2 game. If the dealer doesn't have it, they would pay you less in 6:5. ???
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Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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December 11th, 2014 at 10:21:19 AM permalink
Quote: Dnalorailed

No casino allows you to take even money in a 6:5 game. (If a dealer allows it, it is against house policy.)



Quote: Dnalorailed

I don't understand why a casino won't allow you to take even money in a 6:5 game. The chances of having a BJ are the same as in a 3:2 game. If the dealer doesn't have it, they would pay you less in 6:5. ???



Because if you make a $10 bet, and you insure a blackjack, and the dealer doesn't have a 10 in the hole, you lose your $5 insurance bet but are paid only $12 for your blackjack. You're net profit is $7 not the $10 you would have been paid in a 3:2 game. Even money only works if the dealer has a blackjack in a 6:5 game.
Dnalorailed
Dnalorailed
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December 11th, 2014 at 10:50:50 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

Because if you make a $10 bet, and you insure a blackjack, and the dealer doesn't have a 10 in the hole, you lose your $5 insurance bet but are paid only $12 for your blackjack. You're net profit is $7 not the $10 you would have been paid in a 3:2 game. Even money only works if the dealer has a blackjack in a 6:5 game.



Thanks. So if I understand correctly, with the same $10 bet, in a 3:2 game, you can either push, win $10 or win $15 depending on whether or not you buy insurance and whether or not dealer has BJ.

In the 6:5 game, your only options are to push or win $12. Why not give you the option to win $7 over just pushing. Granted it would not then be "even money", but it would be better than pushing. It could still be called "insurance" just not "even money".

I already know that mathematically, insurance is a bad bet and 6:5 BJ is a bad bet. Seems even worse without giving the player the option to "cut losses" if you will...
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Twirdman
Twirdman
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December 11th, 2014 at 11:35:40 AM permalink
Quote: Dnalorailed

Thanks. So if I understand correctly, with the same $10 bet, in a 3:2 game, you can either push, win $10 or win $15 depending on whether or not you buy insurance and whether or not dealer has BJ.

In the 6:5 game, your only options are to push or win $12. Why not give you the option to win $7 over just pushing. Granted it would not then be "even money", but it would be better than pushing. It could still be called "insurance" just not "even money".

I already know that mathematically, insurance is a bad bet and 6:5 BJ is a bad bet. Seems even worse without giving the player the option to "cut losses" if you will...



You can take insurance on a BJ in 6:5 games you just don't get paid even money for it. You pay 5 if dealer has blackjack you get 10 dollars on insurance bet and push normal bet if dealer doesn't have blackjack you lose insurance and get paid 12 for a net win of 7. It is not called even money because as you can see its not even money you just make a standard insurance wager.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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December 11th, 2014 at 11:41:54 AM permalink
Quote: Dnalorailed

Thanks. So if I understand correctly, with the same $10 bet, in a 3:2 game, you can either push, win $10 or win $15 depending on whether or not you buy insurance and whether or not dealer has BJ.

In the 6:5 game, your only options are to push or win $12. Why not give you the option to win $7 over just pushing. Granted it would not then be "even money", but it would be better than pushing. It could still be called "insurance" just not "even money".

I already know that mathematically, insurance is a bad bet and 6:5 BJ is a bad bet. Seems even worse without giving the player the option to "cut losses" if you will...



The reason why the casino doesn't give you the option of paying you $7 (on a $10 bet in a 6:5 game) over just pushing? This is an erroneous question, because sometimes you don't push. You would win $10 if the dealer has a blackjack and you took insurance. Allowing the player to always win $7 would be terrible for the player.

BTW, in a SD 3:2 game with a $25 initial bet, you win $26 on average not taking even money.
Dnalorailed
Dnalorailed
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December 11th, 2014 at 12:22:42 PM permalink
Well my local casino only offers 6:5 BJ in the "party pit" during party pit hours with no insurance option. Only a stupid "High Tide" side bet. I've looked at it again and with no insurance option on a $10 bet, the player loses out on being able to push, win $7, win $10 or win $12. Your only options are to push or win $12. Sort of like an all or nothing proposition.
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Dnalorailed
Dnalorailed
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December 11th, 2014 at 12:29:15 PM permalink
Plus there are no dancing girls in this party pit. The only advantage is the offering of $1.25 minimum BJ. Good place to practice.
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Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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December 11th, 2014 at 12:52:08 PM permalink
Quote: Dnalorailed

Well my local casino only offers 6:5 BJ in the "party pit" during party pit hours with no insurance option. Only a stupid "High Tide" side bet. I've looked at it again and with no insurance option on a $10 bet, the player loses out on being able to push, win $7, win $10 or win $12. Your only options are to push or win $12. Sort of like an all or nothing proposition.



Insurance has an approx 7.4% negative EV on a 6D game, and a approx 5.8 negative EV on a SD game. So you should never take insurance unless you were card counting and the count warranted it.
Dnalorailed
Dnalorailed
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December 11th, 2014 at 1:09:45 PM permalink
So back to the OP's question: I think there would not be as much heat as one would think at a 6:5 BJ table. No one would suspect a professional card counter or AP to be playing there in the first place. Those tables are for beginners and folks looking to have a good time. Why not count unsuspectingly and double down on a BJ if the count merited it. They probably don't have restrictions on mid-shoe entry...hang back, count the cards, and get in when it's good. Maybe even do it while the dealers are up there dancing...lots of distractions.

Are the dealers any good at shielding their cards. Any opportunities for hole carding in these pits?
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Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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December 11th, 2014 at 1:23:57 PM permalink
Quote: Dnalorailed

So back to the OP's question: I think there would not be as much heat as one would think at a 6:5 BJ table. No one would suspect a professional card counter or AP to be playing there in the first place. Those tables are for beginners and folks looking to have a good time. Why not count unsuspectingly and double down on a BJ if the count merited it. They probably don't have restrictions on mid-shoe entry...hang back, count the cards, and get in when it's good. Maybe even do it while the dealers are up there dancing...lots of distractions.

Are the dealers any good at shielding their cards. Any opportunities for hole carding in these pits?



If you are card counting there are many good plays you would make long before the count warranted doubling on blackjack (in fact just about all of them). And by playing 6:5 you are giving up about 1.4% in EV over 3:2 Blackjack. Play 3:2 whenever possible. (I wouldn't play the game if 3:2 wasn't offered.)

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