Is the Illustrious 18 the same for different counting systems?
On the other hand, why are you switching to Omega2? ???
If I can't find adjusted I18, I will stick to Hilo as well. As you guys said it doesn't matter that much and it's far more important to have the strategy changes down.
Quote: Lemieux66I was told in another thread that Resorts in AC has incredible blackjack rules. I'm going tomorrow to check it out. If it turns out to not be true I'm gonna just stick to poker lol.
If I can't find adjusted I18, I will stick to Hilo as well. As you guys said it doesn't matter that much and it's far more important to have the strategy changes down.
Incredible to what you may be used to but nowhere near what I would call incredible. The S17 games that I told you about are 8 deck with no surrender. I want to be sure you understand that. Good cards to you!
Quote: Lemieux66I'm mentally capable of switching to a more complicated system without errors. I was considering Zen but I feel tracking the nines is important.
As an experienced player, please allow me to express my earnest opinion that tracking the 9 is not important. Although it can allow for a tiny net gain overall, it will decrease insurance correlation. Switching from hi-lo to Omega is a giant leap forward. The main weakness in hi-lo is ignoring the 7.
Quote: SonuvabishAs an experienced player, please allow me to express my earnest opinion that tracking the 9 is not important. Although it can allow for a tiny net gain overall, it will decrease insurance correlation. Switching from hi-lo to Omega is a giant leap forward. The main weakness in hi-lo is ignoring the 7.
So use Zen? Even still, I need to find the index number change.
Quote: Lemieux66So use Zen? Even still, I need to find the index number change.
Dude, any count system has a primary source. Omega 2 is detailed in Blackjack for Blood. Zen in Blackbelt in Blackjack.
If you want the indices, just buy the damn books. You might be able to find them on the internet, but the authors probably try to keep it under wraps as much as possible.
Quote: AcesAndEightsDude, any count system has a primary source. Omega 2 is detailed in Blackjack for Blood. Zen in Blackbelt in Blackjack.
If you want the indices, just buy the damn books. You might be able to find them on the internet, but the authors probably try to keep it under wraps as much as possible.
I'm incredibly cheap.
Quote: AcesAndEightsDude, any count system has a primary source. Omega 2 is detailed in Blackjack for Blood. Zen in Blackbelt in Blackjack.
If you want the indices, just buy the damn books. You might be able to find them on the internet, but the authors probably try to keep it under wraps as much as possible.
I was just going to suggest Snyder's book. I'm pretty sure the Zen information is online with a little looking.
Quote: Lemieux66So use Zen? Even still, I need to find the index number change.
I like Revere or the similar Chamberliss count. But yes, I would recommend Zen. Although they are not exact and I have never seen them, I can guarantee you the indices for Zen will be extremely similar to the ones for hi-lo, except they will be multiplied by 2. Using them would do you no harm.
http://blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm
Quote: RSType "zen indices" on Google and check the first link.
http://blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm
There it is. That's the one I was thinking of.
Quote: Lemieux66I'm incredibly cheap.
I feel you, I'm incredibly cheap too. But when you're talking about gambling and specifically AP, information is worth spending money on. I hate spending money but I probably have 15 books on gambling.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI feel you, I'm incredibly cheap too. But when you're talking about gambling and specifically AP, information is worth spending money on. I hate spending money but I probably have 15 books on gambling.
I just can't resist. Do you tip the dealers, Lemieux66?
Quote: AcesAndEightsI feel you, I'm incredibly cheap too. But when you're talking about gambling and specifically AP, information is worth spending money on. I hate spending money but I probably have 15 books on gambling.
Well I have a lot of Texas hold 'em books. I feel those are more worthwhile than blackjack ones because there's a lot more complexity in poker. I feel the math is the math in blackjack and I just need the answers most of the time.
Quote: 1BBI just can't resist. Do you tip the dealers, Lemieux66?
If I win something significant(over 200 dollars) I give 5 dollars. Sometimes before I color up I count my chips and say I have 1212.50 I'm probably gonna hide 10 bucks and give the dealer one pink lol
If I lose, nothing. During the play of blackjack, even if I win a big hand, nothing. Only at the end! If I win.
Quote: Lemieux66If I win something significant(over 200 dollars) I give 5 dollars. Sometimes before I color up I count my chips and say I have 1212.50 I'm probably gonna hide 10 bucks and give the dealer one pink lol
If I lose, nothing. During the play of blackjack, even if I win a big hand, nothing. Only at the end! If I win.
Even though I think that he should buy the books as well, in fairness, he has a point. At the red-chip level, $25 on a book is a significant expense. And, controlling expenses is critical to winning at that level.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceEven though I think that he should buy the books as well, in fairness, he has a point. At the red-chip level, $25 on a book is a significant expense. And, controlling expenses is critical to winning at that level.
Here is a gigantic example of how cheap I am. At the Borgata, they have this small little eatery named Bread and Butter. If you get your food to stay, they bring it to you. Just bring it to you, that's it. I would say that is worth a dollar. I always get my food to go.
Quote: Lemieux66I always get my food to go.
LOL
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAt the red-chip level, $25 on a book is a significant expense. And, controlling expenses is critical to winning at that level.
$25 is a significant expense? What's your EV, $5/hour? Generally speaking, the book will pay for itself in due time. BJ isn't "just about the math" -- actually, that's a tiny part of it. If you want to survive, you first learn the science then later master the art.
Quote: RS$25 is a significant expense? What's your EV, $5/hour? Generally speaking, the book will pay for itself in due time. BJ isn't "just about the math" -- actually, that's a tiny part of it. If you want to survive, you first learn the science then later master the art.
You don't need the "why" in blackjack, just knowledge of what exactly to do in all spots. A long book isn't needed because I am sure a ton of that is repeated information.
The books are an investment.Quote: Lemieux66You don't need the "why" in blackjack, just knowledge of what exactly to do in all spots. A long book isn't needed because I am sure a ton of that is repeated information.
Frugality is to be expected; excuses are not.
Quote: Lemieux66You don't need the "why" in blackjack, just knowledge of what exactly to do in all spots. A long book isn't needed because I am sure a ton of that is repeated information.
Actually I think that the "why" is really useful because of unexpected situations that come up. Eg, a dealer makes an error and the floor gives you the option of playing your hand or pulling your bet back. Do you know which hands to play?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceActually I think that the "why" is really useful because of unexpected situations that come up. Eg, a dealer makes an error and the floor gives you the option of playing your hand or pulling your bet back. Do you know which hands to play?
While I agree that is a useful bit of information, it's not really going to help the cause of getting Lemieux66 to be less of a miser and shell out for just one blackjack book :). Because most standard books on counting don't contain a lot of information about situations like this. The Big Book of Blackjack by Snyder I believe has correct strategy for when you can see both dealer cards (i.e. hole-card strategy).
Quote: RS$25 is a significant expense? What's your EV, $5/hour? Generally speaking, the book will pay for itself in due time. BJ isn't "just about the math" -- actually, that's a tiny part of it. If you want to survive, you first learn the science then later master the art.
I agree; and as to the finer points of card counting and getting away with it, Ian Andersen's books are great. The first one is dated but still a good read. The second one is also getting dated (published 2003) but has a great section on succeeding at mid level (i.e. green-chip) counting.
Quote: AcesAndEightsWhile I agree that is a useful bit of information, it's not really going to help the cause of getting Lemieux66 to be less of a miser and shell out for just one blackjack book :). Because most standard books on counting don't contain a lot of information about situations like this. The Big Book of Blackjack by Snyder I believe has correct strategy for when you can see both dealer cards (i.e. hole-card strategy).
My point is, its worthwhile to understand the game. Reading lots about the game helps.
FWIW, I was really disappointed with Big Book of Blackjack. I dunno what it is about Snyder. Sometimes I read his stuff and I'm amazed by its brilliance; other times I read it and I wonder how this guy could possibly be a professional gambler. Eg, his advice about taking even money on blackjacks (in BBoB) is mind-boggling. He then goes on to try to support his position by quoting something from Griffin completely out of context and showing that he doesn't understand it.
I've often wondered -- does Snyder actually understand and do the math, or does he get others to do it for him? What's his background?
Quote: Lemieux66Well I have a lot of Texas hold 'em books. I feel those are more worthwhile than blackjack ones because there's a lot more complexity in poker. I feel the math is the math in blackjack and I just need the answers most of the time.Quote: AcesAndEightsI feel you, I'm incredibly cheap too. But when you're talking about gambling and specifically AP, information is worth spending money on. I hate spending money but I probably have 15 books on gambling.
Quote: Lemieux66Quote: RS$25 is a significant expense? What's your EV, $5/hour? Generally speaking, the book will pay for itself in due time. BJ isn't "just about the math" -- actually, that's a tiny part of it. If you want to survive, you first learn the science then later master the art.
You don't need the "why" in blackjack, just knowledge of what exactly to do in all spots. A long book isn't needed because I am sure a ton of that is repeated information.
Quote: Lemieux66In blackjack, you need the "what to do". In poker, you need the "why" because there are multiple reasons. The "why" in blackjack is because it wins more.Quote: rob45The books are an investment.
Frugality is to be expected; excuses are not.
Please do not mistake me (or any of the other posters) for being facetious.
There is more to Blackjack than action and reaction ("what to do"); there is certainly plenty of reason ("why").
You seem to have the impression that the only reason (the "why") is increased profit.
Study and comparison of the various systems can help you find those answers, but will not address other important issues.
Will any particular system give you information regarding preservation?
Will the system itself provide instruction on camouflage/cover techniques?
Will the system itself provide information on how to become proficient with the system? (Counting drills, shortcuts and tricks, etc.) Some do, some don't.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceQuote: AcesAndEightsWhile I agree that is a useful bit of information, it's not really going to help the cause of getting Lemieux66 to be less of a miser and shell out for just one blackjack book :). Because most standard books on counting don't contain a lot of information about situations like this. The Big Book of Blackjack by Snyder I believe has correct strategy for when you can see both dealer cards (i.e. hole-card strategy).
My point is, its worthwhile to understand the game. Reading lots about the game helps.
FWIW, I was really disappointed with Big Book of Blackjack. I dunno what it is about Snyder. Sometimes I read his stuff and I'm amazed by its brilliance; other times I read it and I wonder how this guy could possibly be a professional gambler. Eg, his advice about taking even money on blackjacks (in BBoB) is mind-boggling. He then goes on to try to support his position by quoting something from Griffin completely out of context and showing that he doesn't understand it.
I've often wondered -- does Snyder actually understand and do the math, or does he get others to do it for him? What's his background?
I don't recall that section from BBoBJ. Was the suggestion made to lower variance or something? If you are straight counting, there doesn't seem to be any reason to take even money other than if the count mandates it, or you are making a cover play.
I enjoyed parts of BBoBJ. The history was amusing; I skipped the parts on Red 7 since I had already read Blackbelt.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI don't recall that section from BBoBJ. Was the suggestion made to lower variance or something? If you are straight counting, there doesn't seem to be any reason to take even money other than if the count mandates it, or you are making a cover play.
No, he was talking about doing it to meet his weekend win goals.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceNo, he was talking about doing it to meet his weekend win goals.
I haven't read it for a few months now but if memory serves...
He was describing a trip from early in his career. He had huge bets out for him at the time and decided to dodge the variance. I can look it up when I go home this afternoon.
The moral of his story was that insurance does not cost a ton on EV and sometime you might rather trade a bit of EV for reduced Var.
I don't think being excessively skimpy on the tips is a good idea either if you are a regular. If you float from casino to casino, from shift to shift, then go ahead and be miserly.
I am not a fan of software for basically the same reason as books. If you need something specific and cannot find it, look it up in a book or buy software and drill yourself--if it is really worth it (but I fail to see that as likely for any novice, since only more advanced and/or precise tactics are not easily searchable). But will you remember everything if your goal is just to learn more? I did all my general reading online. Only after I exhausted the supply, did I turn to a book. On this forum, I ask questions. Books don't ever respond to my questions. It's kinda like 1st grade. When you were learning how to read, they didn't make you read a bunch of textbooks and tell you to absorb them...they just gave you a phonics workbook.
Was at daughter's house last weekend. I buy kids books at yards sales for all grand kids. My 6 year old granddaughter Gracie got a tablet
for Xmas. Chloe, her 4 year old sister asked Gracie to read a book to her. They sat next to each other on the couch. Gracie then selected a book on her tablet, and the tablet displayed colored picture and words as it read the book aloud for them.
The times, they are a changing !
Quote: SonuvabishI tend to disagree with the majority here, and take the view that if you do not want a book then do not buy it. The most important information is free. You can look at the wizard's site to learn correct hole-card play or dealer error play, why would you need a book? You don't need to know why, you need to what--actually, close proximity to what to do is good enough since you are not a computer. Some people almost have a library. Any two decent books will repeat the same information; the differences will not be in the fundamentals. So while I think one book is good, I don't think a library is cost-effective. There are also books you can not so legally download if you bother.
I don't think being excessively skimpy on the tips is a good idea either if you are a regular. If you float from casino to casino, from shift to shift, then go ahead and be miserly.
I am not a fan of software for basically the same reason as books. If you need something specific and cannot find it, look it up in a book or buy software and drill yourself--if it is really worth it (but I fail to see that as likely for any novice, since only more advanced and/or precise tactics are not easily searchable). But will you remember everything if your goal is just to learn more? I did all my general reading online. Only after I exhausted the supply, did I turn to a book. On this forum, I ask questions. Books don't ever respond to my questions. It's kinda like 1st grade. When you were learning how to read, they didn't make you read a bunch of textbooks and tell you to absorb them...they just gave you a phonics workbook.
THIS. I feel this way exactly.
Quote: Lemieux66On a side note, I wrote down some zen count index differences for if I play.
I'm glad I could help. Getting better indices helps. For all others, you are quite safe adjusting hi-lo's to level 2. The difference between profit-maximization indices and risk-averse indices will be larger than the difference between indices for hi-lo and zen. So if you feel a makeshift double/split index is too low for zen, then you can safely raise it by 1.
Quote: Lemieux66THIS. I feel this way exactly.
I don't disagree with anything that he wrote. You don't need a library. I like having books so I have probably spent more than the ROI justifies.
My only point is that if you are looking for indices on a particular count system, then there is one place that you are guaranteed to find those indices: in the book where they were published!
