98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
• Posts: 1728
January 3rd, 2014 at 8:43:31 PM permalink
NO, and ABSOLUTELY NO.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
• Posts: 5761
January 3rd, 2014 at 11:18:45 PM permalink
Quote: rainy

Yes.

It really comes down to what count you are using. If you are using a basic Hi Lo or Knock Out system, then, according to the betting index, you should ramp up on positive TC regardless of Aces, which is why it's better used on 6D/8D games.

But, if you are using a neutral Ace count system like Hi Opt II with ASC, you can have a True Count of +4, but if Aces are depleted, you will keep your bets at minimum spread according to the index with ace side count.

This is a little backwards. It doesn't matter what count you are using; it matters if you have an advantage. If your count isn't well-correlated to your advantage then you need another count for betting purposes. As you point out, some counts are not suitable for some games.
rainy
Joined: Dec 19, 2013
• Posts: 34
January 4th, 2014 at 1:46:44 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

This is a little backwards. It doesn't matter what count you are using; it matters if you have an advantage. If your count isn't well-correlated to your advantage then you need another count for betting purposes. As you point out, some counts are not suitable for some games.

You are correct.

I guess the point I was making is that certain counts calculate expected returns without keeping aces in mind. So by having a deck rich with tens, the betting strategy stays the same whether the deck is rich in aces or low in aces.

But, yeah, if one knew that there was 0 Aces remaining in the deck, it is better to table hop regardless of what count one is using.
moses
Joined: Sep 23, 2013
• Posts: 370
January 4th, 2014 at 7:05:39 AM permalink
Rainy:

Suppose you are playing single deck and there is a surplus of tens but only one Ace left in the deck because you've seen 3 Aces played. Is it worth it to you be a scavenger to absorb more cards by playing two hands as only one blackjack is possible? If no Aces remained, the only hope is to get more 10s than the dealer or get lucky with a double-down situation. Many times, I've seen all 3 hands get 20.
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
• Posts: 5761
January 4th, 2014 at 11:59:46 AM permalink
Quote: moses

Rainy:

Suppose you are playing single deck and there is a surplus of tens but only one Ace left in the deck because you've seen 3 Aces played. Is it worth it to you be a scavenger to absorb more cards by playing two hands as only one blackjack is possible? If no Aces remained, the only hope is to get more 10s than the dealer or get lucky with a double-down situation. Many times, I've seen all 3 hands get 20.

When you say "absorb cards"... are they using a cut card? The cut card effect really hurts in single deck.

You could probably run some simulations to see how large the surplus of 10's needed to be before you had the edge again.
moses
Joined: Sep 23, 2013
• Posts: 370
January 4th, 2014 at 1:12:38 PM permalink
No cut card. Dealer decides how deep to go. I forgot about my "rule of 12" for single deck. If 2-9s are 12+ A-10s then the deck is always 50% A-10s. I'd go 2 hands in that situation even if only 1 Ace reamained.
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
• Posts: 5761
January 4th, 2014 at 1:29:49 PM permalink
Quote: moses

No cut card. Dealer decides how deep to go. I forgot about my "rule of 12" for single deck. If 2-9s are 12+ A-10s then the deck is always 50% A-10s. I'd go 2 hands in that situation even if only 1 Ace reamained.

Be careful with this. If they are using a fixed rule (ro6, or whatever) fine. Make sure that you are not being preferential shuffled on. Also, if they just go by "feel" (ie, to a certain depth, more or less) that seems just as bad as a cut card. Remember that the cut card effect is like a weak form of preferential shuffle (not that weak in single deck...)
BizzyB
Joined: Nov 26, 2013
• Posts: 246
January 7th, 2014 at 2:21:00 AM permalink
Quote: moses

you knew only 1 Ace remained in the deck? if 0 Aces remained?

There was cute dealer I had a crush on dealing the game the other day. Lots of aces left in a 6D shoe, with about 2/3 of one deck left. I had a hard 20. I seriously thought about doubling down to impress her with my supreme intelligence. I waived it off. Next card was an ace.
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
• Posts: 5761
January 7th, 2014 at 10:39:08 AM permalink
Quote: BizzyB

in a 6D shoe, with about 2/3 of one deck left.

There are places that deal that deep in a 6D shoe?
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011