Backed off for red-chipping at South Point
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October 5th, 2013 at 10:07:27 PM
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Got backed off for the first time ever tonight here at the lovely South Point. I didn't give them a player's card, so I don't think they have any info on me; the pit boss just pushed my bet back and told me that I can play other casino games, but they don't want me playing blackjack anymore. I just said 'ok' and immediately colored up and left.
I didn't think there was that much heat at red chip tables! I've played maybe 5 or 6 hours total for the past couple days, and only at $5 and $10 tables (though mainly just the DD games, which aren't even great rules-wise).
On top of that, the maximum bet I placed the entire time was $30, and that only occurred twice. In the particular session during which I was backed off, I was up $80 at a $10 table, and literally had not placed a single bet above $15! Maybe my eyes were darting around too much? I saw the pit boss glance in my direction a couple of times, but I didn't think I was doing anything out of the ordinary.
Is heat like this normal for red-chip games? I've read on some places that the South Point is a sweatshop, so I'm not sure.
Also, does being backed off mean your picture is spread to all the Vegas casinos? Do you get put on a database for getting caught counting at red chip tables?
Thanks!
I didn't think there was that much heat at red chip tables! I've played maybe 5 or 6 hours total for the past couple days, and only at $5 and $10 tables (though mainly just the DD games, which aren't even great rules-wise).
On top of that, the maximum bet I placed the entire time was $30, and that only occurred twice. In the particular session during which I was backed off, I was up $80 at a $10 table, and literally had not placed a single bet above $15! Maybe my eyes were darting around too much? I saw the pit boss glance in my direction a couple of times, but I didn't think I was doing anything out of the ordinary.
Is heat like this normal for red-chip games? I've read on some places that the South Point is a sweatshop, so I'm not sure.
Also, does being backed off mean your picture is spread to all the Vegas casinos? Do you get put on a database for getting caught counting at red chip tables?
Thanks!
October 5th, 2013 at 11:12:45 PM
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Were you counting? Was it obvious? If you were, you over exposed yourself
by playing that many hours in a casino that's getting a rep for sweating.
by playing that many hours in a casino that's getting a rep for sweating.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 5th, 2013 at 11:27:50 PM
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I was counting, but I dont think it was overly obv... like I mentioned earlier, my spread was only 1-6, and I was talking to my gf and also occasionally tipping the dealers... in my backoff session tho, my gf wasnt with me so perhaps I looked more focused than normal.
and ya, reading online im seeing a lot of reports of south point sweatiness... good thing im only here for a convention and will likely not be coming back anyway... a simple backoff like this shouldnt follow me to other casinos, should it?
thanks
and ya, reading online im seeing a lot of reports of south point sweatiness... good thing im only here for a convention and will likely not be coming back anyway... a simple backoff like this shouldnt follow me to other casinos, should it?
thanks
October 5th, 2013 at 11:32:40 PM
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that's why you shouldn't play double deck games. Honestly, how long do you think it would take you to notice someone counting in a DD game? could be less than a minute if the count immediately goes up. Whoever they have in the security room probably has thousands of hours of experience catching counters. My guess would be that your demeanor flags you as a potential counter. Only takes two positive count pitches to find out for sure if someone is counting, which is really easy to do in six hours, especially if you are playing at non busy times. Also, the amount your betting doesn't matter. Instead of giving the casino your money, you are taking some of theirs. No matter how small, it would be foolish of them to let you play once you've been identified as a counter.
casino's money disappears
the execs worry when the wizard is near
He turns tears into joy
Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
October 5th, 2013 at 11:34:51 PM
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I would assume that it would be a waste of the casinos time to worry about notifying other casinos about a low limit counter. They would be flooding each other with counter names every day if that was the case. The only incentive they would have to notify other casinos about a counter they caught would be to shut down a big team so the team leaves town or disbands forever. I would think they would want a smaller player to go to the other casinos and play.
casino's money disappears
the execs worry when the wizard is near
He turns tears into joy
Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
October 5th, 2013 at 11:42:35 PM
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Unfortunately, yes, this has become 'normal' at South Point. They are following in the El Cortez tradition of backing of red chipper and worse, they are backing off players that they think are counting who really aren't! Must be a Gaughan family tradition. Lol
October 6th, 2013 at 12:37:20 AM
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Southpoint is a sweat the money shop that watches their BJ like a hawk and offers only 2x odds on the craps table.
Its a great place. Large clean rooms, good prices, ... but its for players not sharpies.
I have a thread entitled "Downtown Heat" or "Downtown Temperature Report" or something wherein I cite an experienced counter who was backed off from Southpoint at a RED CHIP TABLE. He terms SouthPoint "the most hostile and paranoid Pit in Vegas", so what were expecting to happen. He is retired and divorced and plays with a few of his close friends who are also counters and pretty much gives a good "temperature report" from time to time as to the heat in the blackjack pits. His blog is no longer as active as it used to be and neither is he, but its still a good source of info on whats happening around town.
If you are counting,,,,,,,,,,,, don't do SouthPoint. They pounce on bet variance there.
So why risk all your other fears about identity and photos being faxed? All they did was back you off and not even say it was beyond that day so you've little to worry about, but whatever you do, don't vary your bets at South Point.
Its a great place. Large clean rooms, good prices, ... but its for players not sharpies.
I have a thread entitled "Downtown Heat" or "Downtown Temperature Report" or something wherein I cite an experienced counter who was backed off from Southpoint at a RED CHIP TABLE. He terms SouthPoint "the most hostile and paranoid Pit in Vegas", so what were expecting to happen. He is retired and divorced and plays with a few of his close friends who are also counters and pretty much gives a good "temperature report" from time to time as to the heat in the blackjack pits. His blog is no longer as active as it used to be and neither is he, but its still a good source of info on whats happening around town.
If you are counting,,,,,,,,,,,, don't do SouthPoint. They pounce on bet variance there.
So why risk all your other fears about identity and photos being faxed? All they did was back you off and not even say it was beyond that day so you've little to worry about, but whatever you do, don't vary your bets at South Point.
October 6th, 2013 at 1:55:02 AM
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"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
October 6th, 2013 at 3:02:28 AM
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I once went to the El Cortez with a friend who wanted to try blackjack. He didn't know basic strategy so I helped him with his decisions. I also told him to bet like I did and he followed my advice. The back off came at the end of the second shoe. Him not me! I still get razzed about that one. Going.....going.....Gaughan!
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
October 6th, 2013 at 5:17:06 AM
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Razz. Razz.
So they backed off the Newbie because he had brought you along as "cover". Proof there is nothing more stupid than a Floor who wants to back off BJ players. The Hell Cortez and SouthPoint share the same owner and philosophies.
So they backed off the Newbie because he had brought you along as "cover". Proof there is nothing more stupid than a Floor who wants to back off BJ players. The Hell Cortez and SouthPoint share the same owner and philosophies.
October 6th, 2013 at 11:47:33 AM
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The Gaughan joints are famous for backing off red chippers. They've been doing it for decades. Flat bet 'em and you'll be there forever. Show 'em a spread and you're done. You don't have to worry about it following you to other places.
"I said hey sawbones I'm just carryin' on an old family tradition."
"I said hey sawbones I'm just carryin' on an old family tradition."
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
October 6th, 2013 at 12:13:40 PM
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Does Jackie still live at the El Cortez? I saw him a few years ago. He was sitting down and he looked pretty good for someone pushing 100.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
October 6th, 2013 at 12:39:54 PM
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Quote: 1BBDoes Jackie still live at the El Cortez? I saw him a few years ago. He was sitting down and he looked pretty good for someone pushing 100.
I think he's still living in the penthouse. That was part of his deal when he sold out. I haven't been there in 7 years. Jackie played in the little $3 poker game every day. It was part of his social life. I'd sit in the game just to get to play with him. He was actually a real nice guy. If you didn't know who he was you wouldn't even know he was a millionaire.
He had this habit of rat holing quarters. There were quarters in the poker game because they raked 10% for as much of it as they could get. A $25 pot and you got raked for $2.50. When Jackie got pushed a pot with quarters in it, he would pick the quarters up and put them in his pocket. One day this player watched Jackie do that a few times and said
"You own what? Five casinos? And you're rat holing quarters?"
"How do you think he got to own all those casinos?" I said.
"It's for my grandkids" Jackie said.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
October 6th, 2013 at 3:06:27 PM
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I never got heat spreading 1-40 lol maybe i am inviisble
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
October 6th, 2013 at 3:48:25 PM
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I've started pressing my bets on a win up to four times depending on my feelings. Last time I did it (Atlantic City, Vegas is out thanks to the Obama depression) I turned 100 into 500 in one shoe and when I colored up the pit boss shook my hand and said if you want to win money press your bets.
October 6th, 2013 at 4:14:12 PM
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Probably good advice, certainly an attentive Pit Boss .... and you would probably be very happy to bring that 500 back to his joint and try to continue the trend... and that is the way winners are supposed to be treated. It will never happen at SouthPoint though.
October 6th, 2013 at 5:14:54 PM
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Quote: teddys
Haha, I've never seen this before - I wish I could get this printed on a T-shirt (not that I'd wear it in Vegas, of course haha)
October 7th, 2013 at 6:37:29 AM
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Quote: malgoriumQuote: teddys
Haha, I've never seen this before - I wish I could get this printed on a T-shirt (not that I'd wear it in Vegas, of course haha)
Perhaps you should send AHigh a PM and see if he is still making those shirts. He was the one who came up with that, I believe, but he did it in retaliation for being not allowed to shoot at their Craps Table.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 7th, 2013 at 7:42:23 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffProbably good advice, certainly an attentive Pit Boss .... and you would probably be very happy to bring that 500 back to his joint and try to continue the trend... and that is the way winners are supposed to be treated. It will never happen at SouthPoint though.
I think this is the essential test for a Sweat The Money joint. Do they make winners feel uneasy while playing or afterwards? Or do they seem truly happy to have winners and realize that the easiest way for them to recoup their losses is to be gracious to the winners.
I recall my first trip to Biloxi. I was having miserable luck in a sweat the money joint and I asked a suit how to get a cab to a different casino (its hot and even walking to a cab stand is difficult in Biloxi). His response was something like "We are not going to help you to go gamble elsewhere". If that is their attitude toward a simple question, you know what they felt about people who were winning at their tables. It was an unpleasant place in virtually all aspects.
Its not just a matter of overt "heat" but subtle and not so subtle indication that don't really want winners there. They are sheep shearers and are proud of it. I mean just how much are red chip BJ players going to take even if they are card counters? At SouthPoint the answer is not one cent... and they really and truly mean it.
Well, the only response is to let them be and go elsewhere
October 13th, 2013 at 9:46:11 PM
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Lol. I'd pay for one of those Sweat Joint tees.
October 13th, 2013 at 10:13:47 PM
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Quote: djatcI never got heat spreading 1-40 lol maybe i am inviisble
Whenever I'm in Vegas without the wife I always stop at Southpoint on my way into town. I will play for an hr or until I get up $100 on the lowest limit dd they got going, i spread about 1-8 regardless of $5 or $10 but usually try to hit a $5 table. I have never had any problems, that I am aware of, and I play rated and always ask for, and get, a comp to the deli afterwards. I have never had any issues. I tend to win more times than I lose but I do tuck away my fair share of chips which help me appear a loser. I think the key tends to be short sessions that are away from the table the floor tends to be keeping an eye on.
I will agree with some other posters that there are much better games available, I don't really care for how the dealer does not look at their hole card til the end of all action. What a waste of all those cards. There is another local chain that offers a much more generous dd game throughout their casinos.
October 13th, 2013 at 10:57:59 PM
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The design and artwork is mine. Just PM me if you want one and we can probably work something out. I don't want to spam the forum with details.
I do have a real professional heat-press and can make the shirts myself. I don't run a business or do any volume at all (I've made a total of about 4 shirts with this heat press that costs about $800), I just happen to have the good stuff to make shirts is all.
I do have a real professional heat-press and can make the shirts myself. I don't run a business or do any volume at all (I've made a total of about 4 shirts with this heat press that costs about $800), I just happen to have the good stuff to make shirts is all.
aahigh.com
October 13th, 2013 at 11:21:20 PM
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If I could justify the cost, I would even let you send a real SouthPoint card and let me make you one that is a functional duplicate.
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/934324598559123341
I've thought about making my own casino cards with some custom stuff on there, but with my luck it would land me in jail or something for some law I don't know about making fake cards just trying to poke fun at the lame casinos.
The shirts are risky enough!
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/934324598559123341
I've thought about making my own casino cards with some custom stuff on there, but with my luck it would land me in jail or something for some law I don't know about making fake cards just trying to poke fun at the lame casinos.
The shirts are risky enough!
aahigh.com
October 14th, 2013 at 12:36:29 AM
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If only it looked more like Sweat Joint and less like Sweat Doint.
As to printing plastic cards simple silk screening would be cheaper.
As to printing plastic cards simple silk screening would be cheaper.
October 14th, 2013 at 12:50:23 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffIf only it looked more like Sweat Joint and less like Sweat Doint.
As to printing plastic cards simple silk screening would be cheaper.
I intentionally flipped their "P" upside down in an obvious/cheap way. They were formerly South Coast, and they saved a bundle by calling the place South Point keeping the "South" in their name to save a few bucks.
The P upside down is in reference to how much of a cheap-ass operation they are, and my saving time by flipping the P is a reference to their changing their name to South Point instead of something classier and much different. Boyd dumped South Coast onto Gaughan:
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/southcoast.htm
Quote: StoryBoyd Gaming sold the new South Coast Hotel, Casino and Spa to Michael Gaughan. Boyd owns all the Coast properties and will take the Coast name with them. Gaughan has changed the name of the resort to South Point Las Vegas, which went into effect on 10/24/06.
Michael Gaughan was the former owner of the Coast hotel chain which Boyd purchased from him in 2004. Gaughan was unhappy under the thumb of Boyd's corporate structure and Boyd was unhappy with the performance of South Coast's first year of operation. Gaughan traded his equity in Boyd Gaming for the South Coast.
You can't blame them for being cheap. They don't truly cater to serious gamblers. They want the guys who make stupid bets over there for sure and guys who have no clue what they are doing.
aahigh.com
October 23rd, 2013 at 6:14:41 AM
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They are starting their Seven Day sale...
From 30.00 Midweek and From 60.00 Weekend plus 15.00 a day resort fee to get shuttles and fitness etc. They do an extra 100.00 on your credit card when you arrive too then adjust it when you check out.
Its not a bad deal for the money but remember... its 2x odds at craps and no real bet spreading at BJ, a place for sheep not sharpies.
From 30.00 Midweek and From 60.00 Weekend plus 15.00 a day resort fee to get shuttles and fitness etc. They do an extra 100.00 on your credit card when you arrive too then adjust it when you check out.
Its not a bad deal for the money but remember... its 2x odds at craps and no real bet spreading at BJ, a place for sheep not sharpies.
October 23rd, 2013 at 6:30:55 AM
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I am not familiar with the place since I'm a downtown dweller when I'm in Vegas, what's this place got going for it? I Google mapped it and it sure seems in the boonies compared to everything else, but maybe the image is old.
October 23rd, 2013 at 7:14:25 AM
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Quote: AlanI am not familiar with the place since I'm a downtown dweller when I'm in Vegas, what's this place got going for it? I Google mapped it and it sure seems in the boonies compared to everything else, but maybe the image is old.
No it's in the boonies. The last e-mail promotion I got from them was about how you can watch a movie for five bucks. I think it was something like "watch movies like Gravity for $5!!!"
They have stuff for cowboys like Rodeos and stuff.
And they have some of the lowest priced breakfast fare (my steak was blue last time -- did not eat).
They operate plenty of craps tables.
And they have mini-bac. Nothing super special IMO.
aahigh.com
October 23rd, 2013 at 7:30:10 AM
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Quote: AhighNo it's in the boonies. The last e-mail promotion I got from them was about how you can watch a movie for five bucks. I think it was something like "watch movies like Gravity for $5!!!"
They have stuff for cowboys like Rodeos and stuff.
And they have some of the lowest priced breakfast fare (my steak was blue last time -- did not eat).
They operate plenty of craps tables.
And they have mini-bac. Nothing super special IMO.
Thanks for saving me a trip to the boonies. When I'm in Vegas, the last thing on my mind is watching a movie.
October 23rd, 2013 at 8:44:14 AM
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Good video poker; some of the best in town if that's your game.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
October 23rd, 2013 at 8:50:21 AM
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Ahigh, do you still play at South Point? I didn't care for the place the last time I was there, but I'm curious about your current thoughts about SP.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
October 23rd, 2013 at 8:52:42 AM
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aahigh.com
October 23rd, 2013 at 8:55:00 AM
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Quote: Beethoven9thAhigh, do you still play at South Point? I didn't care for the place the last time I was there, but I'm curious about your current thoughts about SP.
The ONLY reason I would go back to play there would be for the drama and/or to create problems. I did go back and play and win just to see if they would let me shoot (twice now). But I haven't won enough (or bet enough) to create a problem.
I was betting $200 to $300 on the eight when they gave me troubles.
But maybe I would go and max bet them for kicks. I have no interest in grinding them for low dollars because it would just be a hassle.
Reports from other dealers around town vouch that it's not the owner, but somebody, I think Toby was the name, who was responsible for "running the place like it was the 70's."
I'm not sure what he meant by that, but basically the pit is sort of run a little weird.
aahigh.com
