My first session of card counting, so much to learn!!

I have been playing BJ for about 10 years. I used to just bet what I felt like and never counted. Then for the last 3 years or so I have incorporated a betting method. At a $10 table I would do a progressive bet with wins and start over after a loss. My progression goes 10, 10, 15, 20, 30 , 40, 50 and 50 until a loss. I also pull 1 unit off the table at each deal that way it looks like I am always losing and since it is a small amount I doubt anyone ever notices. No need to tear it down, I play for fun and this system has netted me some decent wins over the past few years. I have always wanted to learn to count but a few years ago I practiced hi/lo at home and felt comfortable and then when we went to the casino I couldn't keep up with the speed of the game along with still holding conversations. I like to play and win but when I go I go to have fun. If a system is so intense that I can't have fun and hold conversations then I would prefer not to play.

So fast forward to a few weeks ago and I read about what appears to be an easy system. http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Easy_OPP_Card_Counting_System.htm So this morning I decided to give it a shot. I went with $150 for a $10 table and after 3 hours I walked away with $155. I was able to keep up with counting with no problems and the game stayed enjoyable. I would have been up a bunch but I lost 2 splits worth $60 and $90 during the session and I never once won a double or split when I had a larger bet out with a high count. That part was a little frustrating.

I was playing a 6 shoe BJ game, it is dealt from a shoe but the shuffling is done by a machine. We have late surrender, double any 2, double after split, Aces only split once, BJ pays 3-2, Stand S17.

I felt completely comfortable counting but I got a little confused about what to bet. Since I only brought $150 with me I was only spreading 1-3x. There were a few times that the count went to -10 and I probably should have sat out but I was ok taking a little hit and keep counting. Should I have just got up and went for a walk and start again on the next shoe when it gets that bad?

There was 1 point when the count was +22. There were literally 7 hands with at least 4 cards each and nothing larger than an 8. Even the dealer was telling everyone to take a shot at the lucky ladies side bet. Everyone ramped up their bet and pretty much everyone was dealt a 20 or 19 and the the dealer ended up with a 21. Owell I guess that happens.

I guess that is all for now. Any word of advise would be great. I am not out to make a living by playing, we are just trying to squeeze a little more play out of our small gambling budget.

deleted

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Welcome to the wonderful frustrating world of card counting. Keep practicing and grow your bankroll. I know if a few people that count as a side adventure and not strictly for a living.

well thank you.

Is there a standard stop win? When I start with $150, my goal is to stop when I have $250 on the table. Sometimes I have another $100 that I went south with.

I just re read the system that I was trying to use and realized that I was pressing my bets all wrong. I was increasing when I was at +7 but it says not to until +12. There was probably a lot of money lost of that. Live and learn.

One difference in playing was when the count was +18 and the dealer was showing a 6. I had such a good feeling that they were going to bust. When the count was bad you just knew it was going to end bad and generally both feelings were pretty much correct. I know I know, LOL sample size. However, I was able to see an immediate difference in what cards came next when actually knowing what a count was.

For the weak OPP count to work you will need a larger betting spread and for a larger betting spread you will need a larger trip or session bankroll. You haven't mentioned penetration but you are playing a game with decent rules so I'll throw out some numbers to put your spread and bankroll in perspective. Let's start with a 1-16 betting spread and a trip or session bankroll of say a minimum of 30 max bets. If you wong out of negative counts your spread could be reduced slightly but I wouldn't recommend it and I would opt for more bankroll.

Hi-Lo wasn't for you and that's okay. There are other unbalanced counts that you can try besides the one you are using. KO should be almost as easy to learn as OPP and is stronger. Give it or Arnold's Red 7 a try. You may be glad you did. Once you do that we can discuss betting ramps in greater detail. Now go do some homework. :-)

Quote: 1BB

For the weak OPP count to work you will need a larger betting spread and for a larger betting spread you will need a larger trip or session bankroll. You haven't mentioned penetration but you are playing a game with decent rules so I'll throw out some numbers to put your spread and bankroll in perspective. Let's start with a 1-16 betting spread and a trip or session bankroll of say a minimum of 30 max bets. If you wong out of negative counts your spread could be reduced slightly but I wouldn't recommend it and I would opt for more bankroll.

Hi-Lo wasn't for you and that's okay. There are other unbalanced counts that you can try besides the one you are using. KO should be almost as easy to learn as OPP and is stronger. Give it or Arnold's Red 7 a try. You may be glad you did. Once you do that we can discuss betting ramps in greater detail. Now go do some homework. :-)

Thank you for that insight. I will look into those tomorrow. Tonight I am going to a Pirates play off game. /brag

One thing that I like about the simple OPP is that I could easily count and still talk and have fun. I have a very open mind about all other systems so I will look into the 2 that you mentioned.

Quote: GWAE

I went with $150 for a $10 table
we are just trying to squeeze a little more play out of our small gambling budget.

With a bankroll that small you cannot take advantage of card counting to any meaningful degree. To "squeeze more play out of our small gambling budget" just play basic strategy, and bet the minimums. If you want to count for an exercise, and thus can leave the table in a negative count, do so. That will extend your time in the casino, too.

If you notice the spread mentioned earlier, of 1-16, that means you must be prepared to bet $160 if you start at $10. Imagine how many thousands of dollars your bankroll must be to be be able to withstand a short run of bad luck (known here as negative variance).

Quote: SOOPOO

With a bankroll that small you cannot take advantage of card counting to any meaningful degree. To "squeeze more play out of our small gambling budget" just play basic strategy, and bet the minimums. If you want to count for an exercise, and thus can leave the table in a negative count, do so. That will extend your time in the casino, too.

If you notice the spread mentioned earlier, of 1-16, that means you must be prepared to bet $160 if you start at $10. Imagine how many thousands of dollars your bankroll must be to be be able to withstand a short run of bad luck (known here as negative variance).

Yeah I did notice that that spread was a bunch more than I would ever do. Normally I take $300 to play which I know isn't much more. I am going to try counting for the next 5 sessions and if I notice that $300 is no way enough then I will just play how I have been since it is working for me.

Quote: GWAE

I have been playing BJ for about 10 years. I used to just bet what I felt like and never counted. Then for the last 3 years or so I have incorporated a betting method. At a $10 table I would do a progressive bet with wins and start over after a loss. My progression goes 10, 10, 15, 20, 30 , 40, 50 and 50 until a loss. I also pull 1 unit off the table at each deal that way it looks like I am always losing and since it is a small amount I doubt anyone ever notices. No need to tear it down, I play for fun and this system has netted me some decent wins over the past few years. I have always wanted to learn to count but a few years ago I practiced hi/lo at home and felt comfortable and then when we went to the casino I couldn't keep up with the speed of the game along with still holding conversations. I like to play and win but when I go I go to have fun. If a system is so intense that I can't have fun and hold conversations then I would prefer not to play.

So fast forward to a few weeks ago and I read about what appears to be an easy system. http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Easy_OPP_Card_Counting_System.htm So this morning I decided to give it a shot. I went with $150 for a $10 table and after 3 hours I walked away with $155. I was able to keep up with counting with no problems and the game stayed enjoyable. I would have been up a bunch but I lost 2 splits worth $60 and $90 during the session and I never once won a double or split when I had a larger bet out with a high count. That part was a little frustrating.

I was playing a 6 shoe BJ game, it is dealt from a shoe but the shuffling is done by a machine. We have late surrender, double any 2, double after split, Aces only split once, BJ pays 3-2, Stand S17.

I felt completely comfortable counting but I got a little confused about what to bet. Since I only brought $150 with me I was only spreading 1-3x. There were a few times that the count went to -10 and I probably should have sat out but I was ok taking a little hit and keep counting. Should I have just got up and went for a walk and start again on the next shoe when it gets that bad?

There was 1 point when the count was +22. There were literally 7 hands with at least 4 cards each and nothing larger than an 8. Even the dealer was telling everyone to take a shot at the lucky ladies side bet. Everyone ramped up their bet and pretty much everyone was dealt a 20 or 19 and the the dealer ended up with a 21. Owell I guess that happens.

I guess that is all for now. Any word of advise would be great. I am not out to make a living by playing, we are just trying to squeeze a little more play out of our small gambling budget.

You may want to write this down for easy reference GWAE

Here is a very easy trick to Card counting.
1) ask yourself, what If I can see 21 cards in advance before making my bet.
2) did ya ever watch the dealer have a 2 underneath his 5 and then draws another 3, followed by another 4, followed by another 4 to make his 18? and all that time Many players are yelling for the Ten (Face Card) to show and it never does.
3) odds are it will be the next card i the shoe for player 1 or 2.
4) you know there are 8 little cards (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 4 big cards (10,J,Q,K) 2 to 1 (not counting Aces)
5) an average deal with 7 players given 3 cards each = 21 cards so a perfect shoe should have 7 Big cards and 8 Little cards
6) by simply counting the Face cards, you know how many little ones there should be.
7) knowing there should be Big cards per deal at a full table, simply count that as 0
8) for every extra big card that comes out, just -1 for each extra card telling you to bet the Minimum.
9) for each Big card that shows as a + (example only 5 Big cards came out that deal = +2) therefore you bet an extra chip for each + for your next bet.
10) I started this type of counting back in the day when I played Black Jack on a Professional Level. (I now play only Baccarat but thats a whole new Story.) I Call it "The Flash Count"

Hope this helps give you an edge GWAE as it did me back in 1996

Quote: varmenti

You may want to write this down for easy reference GWAE

Here is a very easy trick to Card counting.
1) ask yourself, what If I can see 21 cards in advance before making my bet.
2) did ya ever watch the dealer have a 2 underneath his 5 and then draws another 3, followed by another 4, followed by another 4 to make his 18? and all that time Many players are yelling for the Ten (Face Card) to show and it never does.
3) odds are it will be the next card i the shoe for player 1 or 2.
4) you know there are 8 little cards (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 4 big cards (10,J,Q,K) 2 to 1 (not counting Aces)
5) an average deal with 7 players given 3 cards each = 21 cards so a perfect shoe should have 7 Big cards and 8 Little cards
6) by simply counting the Face cards, you know how many little ones there should be.
7) knowing there should be Big cards per deal at a full table, simply count that as 0
8) for every extra big card that comes out, just -1 for each extra card telling you to bet the Minimum.
9) for each Big card that shows as a + (example only 5 Big cards came out that deal = +2) therefore you bet an extra chip for each + for your next bet.
10) I started this type of counting back in the day when I played Black Jack on a Professional Level. (I now play only Baccarat but thats a whole new Story.) I Call it "The Flash Count"

Hope this helps give you an edge GWAE as it did me back in 1996

Flash Count huh? I'm still scratching my head over this odd post. After wading through it, I guess you're saying that you do a plus/minus count using all cards but the aces. As a professional this is your advice to a new counter? If I'm missing something please feel free to elaborate.

Quote: 1BB

Flash Count huh? I'm still scratching my head over this odd post. After wading through it, I guess you're saying that you do a plus/minus count using all cards but the aces. As a professional this is your advice to a new counter? If I'm missing something please feel free to elaborate.

In summary, Just count the Tens and forget the rest, buy knowing there are 4 tens and 8 little ones, just count the tens.

each deal there should be 7 tens (10,J,Q,K) come out.
if you see 11 tens come out, this tells you that the next deal should only show 3

another example, if you notice 4 tens come out, then there should be 10 x tens come out next deal. (+3)

You can manage betting by the amount of extra tens there is +1 = extra chip bet, +2 = 2 chips, +3 = 3 chips extra on your next bet.

Playing the first or first & second spots give you the "Edge you need"

Keep in mind your playing at a full table using basic strategy $25.00 table

you will also notice easy Aces when they are do, and also can figure out when the next deal will favor your Splits and double downs.

This method works wonders in BJ tournaments, But Tipping is the key and be nice to the dealers.

Hopes this helps.

Quote: varmenti

In summary, Just count the Tens and forget the rest, buy knowing there are 4 tens and 8 little ones, just count the tens.

each deal there should be 7 tens (10,J,Q,K) come out.
if you see 11 tens come out, this tells you that the next deal should only show 3

another example, if you notice 4 tens come out, then there should be 10 x tens come out next deal. (+3)

You can manage betting by the amount of extra tens there is +1 = extra chip bet, +2 = 2 chips, +3 = 3 chips extra on your next bet.

Playing the first or first & second spots give you the "Edge you need"

Keep in mind your playing at a full table using basic strategy $25.00 table

you will also notice easy Aces when they are do, and also can figure out when the next deal will favor your Splits and double downs.

This method works wonders in BJ tournaments, But Tipping is the key and be nice to the dealers.

Hopes this helps.

Tipping may be a nice thing to do but how is it the"key" to winning ?

Lol I told my wife I was going to try counting and she yelled at me. She fears I will get banned. I just laughed and said ok then I wont. Hopefully she cant read my brain wyen we are playing.

I don't get to play BJ very often but I went yesterday and gave counting a shot again. I used the OPP method again. I played for about 4 hours and lost $60. Even though there are better methods of counting it is amazing to actually see the difference in the cards based on count. I ran a bit unlucky yesterday. There were multiple times that the count was really good and I some how get dealt a 15 where all 5 other players get 18-20 and the dealer with a 18 or 17.

I need to do a bit more reading but it seems like when the count is really good (+20) on this method, that you should play the lucky ladies bonus. If you are expecting a lot of high cards I would think this otherwise bad bet could at some point turn good.

Quote: GWAE

I don't get to play BJ very often but I went yesterday and gave counting a shot again. I used the OPP method again. I played for about 4 hours and lost $60. Even though there are better methods of counting it is amazing to actually see the difference in the cards based on count. I ran a bit unlucky yesterday. There were multiple times that the count was really good and I some how get dealt a 15 where all 5 other players get 18-20 and the dealer with a 18 or 17.

I need to do a bit more reading but it seems like when the count is really good (+20) on this method, that you should play the lucky ladies bonus. If you are expecting a lot of high cards I would think this otherwise bad bet could at some point turn good.

Were you able to increase your betting spread?

Lucky Ladies is countable. The exact strike point depends on the count used, the number of decks and the payouts. There is money to be made but do some research first.

Quote: 1BB

Were you able to increase your betting spread?

Lucky Ladies is countable. The exact strike point depends on the count used, the number of decks and the payouts. There is money to be made but do some research first.

yes I will def do some research. Like I said, I was truly amazed that even a bad counting system shows you how different the cards are at +17 compared to -2.

I did increase my spread, I was at a $10 table and I was spreading $10-$50. Not exactly what the system was saying to do but it was ok for me. This session is giving me the itch to really learn a more proficient system though so that may be on my horizon.

Good. Try to take a break from negative counts.

If you went to a $10 6 deck table with $150 you were playing a negative expectation game let alone the 3-1 spread. Period. Buy Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong for a starter. The fact you didn't mention the word "penetration" means you have a lot of reading ahead of you.

Quote: 1BB

For the weak OPP count to work you will need a larger betting spread and for a larger betting spread you will need a larger trip or session bankroll. You haven't mentioned penetration but you are playing a game with decent rules so I'll throw out some numbers to put your spread and bankroll in perspective. Let's start with a 1-16 betting spread and a trip or session bankroll of say a minimum of 30 max bets. If you wong out of negative counts your spread could be reduced slightly but I wouldn't recommend it and I would opt for more bankroll.

Hi-Lo wasn't for you and that's okay. There are other unbalanced counts that you can try besides the one you are using. KO should be almost as easy to learn as OPP and is stronger. Give it or Arnold's Red 7 a try. You may be glad you did. Once you do that we can discuss betting ramps in greater detail. Now go do some homework. :-)

Didn't see this. Sums it up nicely.

Quote: anonimuss

If you went to a $10 6 deck table with $150 you were playing a negative expectation game let alone the 3-1 spread. Period. Buy Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong for a starter. The fact you didn't mention the word "penetration" means you have a lot of reading ahead of you.

I don't disagree with you that I have a lot of reading to do but that is not because I didn't mention penetration. However, FWIW the penetration at this casino is the same on every single table because they use the slot on the shoe to place the cut card. They cut 1.5 decks out of a 6 deck shoe so I guess that would be 75%.

I was looking at some books this morning on Amazon. There are soooo many of them. Would you all agree that Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong is still one of the better ones to buy? I noticed it was written 20 years ago, I thought maybe there would be a newer one out there by now that is better.

There are lots of good one's. Maybe start with Blackjack Blueprint?

oh I also wanted to mention 1 major mistake that I made and was a little disappointed about. Hopefully all of you have made this error before too. Anyways, we were about half way through the shoe and the count was +9. For some reason I lost track or forgot to count or just had a brain lapse and couldn't for the life of me figure out what the count was. I tried to recreate the last 2 hands in my head but I couldn't be sure that this was correct. So I basically just gave up on the shoe and min bet the rest of the shoe. I probably should have just taken a walk and got my mind right. If this ever happens again I will just leave the table.

Quote: GWAE

I don't disagree with you that I have a lot of reading to do but that is not because I didn't mention penetration. However, FWIW the penetration at this casino is the same on every single table because they use the slot on the shoe to place the cut card. They cut 1.5 decks out of a 6 deck shoe so I guess that would be 75%.

I was looking at some books this morning on Amazon. There are soooo many of them. Would you all agree that Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong is still one of the better ones to buy? I noticed it was written 20 years ago, I thought maybe there would be a newer one out there by now that is better.

The Wiz, who wrote his book "Gambling 102" in 2007, still lists that book as one of the top BJ resources of all time, FWIW.

I ordered the book today.

What do you do when after the first 5 hands the count is horrible. Do you give up on the shoe that quickly? I am sure that is covered in the book but are curious what you all have to say.

Quote: GWAE

I ordered the book today.

What do you do when after the first 5 hands the count is horrible. Do you give up on the shoe that quickly? I am sure that is covered in the book but are curious what you all have to say.

Stand up, take a fake phone call, keep counting and wait for it to come back.

Quote: GWAE

What do you do when after the first 5 hands the count is horrible. Do you give up on the shoe that quickly? I am sure that is covered in the book but are curious what you all have to say.

I play very short sessions. I exit at the shuffle after showing my spread, rather that retreat back to a smaller bet, which is one of the biggest 'counter tells'. And I exit aggressively (Wong out) on negative counts. These two rules almost guarantee that I will play a short session.

The aggressive early exit is one of the trickier moves, as it goes against the way most players play. But after you do it a few times, it doesn't feel that strange. Back when I used to play rated more, if the count went negative early, I would sometimes be ready to jet before the pit even returned my payers card. Now, that's a bit awkward! Lol.

But there are a few tricks you can do to make your early exit easier, and draw less attention. I buy in for a very small amount. $100 @ a $25 minimum table. That is 4 minimum wagers. This immediately sends the message that you probably won't be there long, so when you exit quickly, it is almost expected. It also usually assures no hassles of playing unrated. Rarely does a pit guy come over and ask for a card. They don't want to create work for themselves, when it looks like you are only playing a few hands. For extra effect, my first buy-in usually consists of twenties and maybe even a couple tens, rather than a 'Ben'. This just screams "I have no money, am only playing a few hands and am no threat". Another good thing about a small buy-in, is that each time you buy-in again, it just looks like you are chasing losses. And if the count then rises and you start to bet bigger and even buy-in bigger, that too looks like you are chasing losses.

Now back to your question, exiting after just a few hands. If you think about it, if the count is negative enough after just a few hands to warrant leaving, then 10's and aces must have come out for those couple rounds. So, if I got some 20's and blackjacks and won a couple hands, my early exit looks like I was just after a quick score. If I lost those hands because the dealer got the good cards, I just say "you are too hot for me" and walk away. Again, these quick exits seem odd at first, but after you do them a few times, not so much. You become oblivious to what others, including dealer think.

Some players think this style of play, early exits of negative counts, draws more attention. But you can actually make the opposite case. In a shoe game there are just too many negative counts. If you play them all, you need a huge spread to overcome all that negative expected value. But if you cut out most of the negative counts, especially the worst of the negative counts, you can play with a smaller spread, as there isn't as many negative counts and as much negative EV to overcome. So a 1-8 spread, while exiting negative counts, will get you the same or better win rate as a 1-16 or 1-20 spread while playing all, and the smaller spread actually draw LESS attention. :-)

Thank you for the responses. I don't mind leaving as you say but I don't want to end my night at that point. KEWLJ, when you leave do you come back for the next shoe? Find another table? or just take a break and come back much later.

I played 10 shoes the other night and I did well on 3 of them. Broke even on 5. The 2 that killed me were 2 that went way negative in the first 5 or 6 hands. In both cases there were a bunch of 10s that came out mixed with neutral cards and the deal either won or pushed on every hand. In my case I lost most of them. I stayed at the table flat betting and the count never got to a point where I should bet more. After another 10 hands it got back to the starting point and then just hovered there. I lost all of my profit on 2 shoes because of that. If I would have just left after the 5th hand I would have been up for the night. I think this is one aspect of counting that a lot of newbies don't realize.

OH and in other news. The count was +15 on this OPP system and I got dealt QhQh on a lucky ladies table. You guessed it, I was not playing it. And I lost the hand to a 5 card 21. It was a kick in the balls for sure.

I leave the shoe at a TC = -1. Don Schlesinger has some excellent work on when to leave the shoe in his book Blackjack Attack. Other good stuff too.

Quote: GWAE

I ordered the book today.

What do you do when after the first 5 hands the count is horrible. Do you give up on the shoe that quickly? I am sure that is covered in the book but are curious what you all have to say.

from Max Rubin's website: http://www.maxrubin.com/blackjack_hof.html

This is the listing of those in the blackjack hall of fame, their contributions, and references to the books they've written. I would say your BJ library should probably contain as many of these as possible, and you might google each person individually in case they've written something not mentioned here.



Dr. Edward Thorp

The inventor of card counting, his best-selling Beat the
Dealer, published in 1962, changed the way blackjack
was played against - and by - casinos forever.



Ken Uston

The most famous professional blackjack player of all
time. He wrote Million Dollar Blackjack and The Big Player
while winning a fortune in Las Vegas and Atlantic City
casinos.




Stanford Wong

Author of Professional Blackjack and inventor of "back
counting." He had a 30-year career and is widely
regarded as the world's foremost authority on casino
tournament play.



Arnold Snyder

The "Bishop of Blackjack," he published Blackjack Forum
magazine, invented the Red 7's count, and developed
numerous sophisticated techniques that intelligent
players have used to exploit blackjack for the past 20
years.



Max Rubin

A former casino executive and professional blackjack
player, he wrote Comp City, which bared long-held
casino comp secrets and showed non-professional
players how to play with an advantage.



Peter Griffin

The greatest analytical mind to ever play the game.
He wrote "The Theory of Blackjack," which is still
considered the most complete mathematical
treatise of blackjack ever written.



Tommy Hyland

The most successful team leader - and solo player -
in history. His count team has won millions over the
past two decades and continues to flourish today.



Keith Taft

The most creative of all the blackjack intellectuals.
He developed the first blackjack computer in 1972.
His inventions were used to legally harvest untold
millions from casinos throughout the '70s and '80s.


Julian Braun

The author of How to Play Winning Blackjack, he's
best known for the vast amount of blackjack
programming he did for virtually every notable
blackjack author through 1975 and is widely
credited for developing the programs that led to
Dr. Thorp and Lawrence Revere's advanced card
counting system.



Lawrence Revere

As an author, he wrote the legendary Playing Blackjack
as a Business in 1969 and developed the first
simplified method to determine the True Counts.
A prolific blackjack player, he mastered card
counting, shuffling tracking and hole card play.

Frank Schipani

Credited with inventing team blackjack play, he is
generally regarded as the “Godfather of team
blackjack.” Boasting an innovative career that has
spanned six decades, he is among the most respected
blackjack players in the world.


James Grosjean

The author of “Beyond Counting,” Grosjean is known
among his peers as the best blackjack player alive and
he is both loathed and feared by casinos which have
been pummeled by James on both the tables and courts
of laws.


John Chang

The inspiration for the character “Mickey Rosa” in the
best selling “Brining down the house” and major motion
picture “21,” Chang was among the leaders of the
infamous MIT Blackjack Team and has enjoyed one of
the more successful blackjack careers of all time.


The Four Horsemen

Roger Baldwin, Wilbert Cantey, Herbert Maisel and
James McDermott -- long known by blackjack insiders
as the nearly mythical “Four Horsemen,” in the 1950’s
these four analysts used only desk calculators and their
considerable brain power to determine the optimal
strategy for playing blackjack.

For more blackjack hall of fame information, click here.

No list is complete without Don Schlesinger. His Blackjack Attack, Third Edition is out of print but coming back soon. It's not for beginners but I suggest everyone get a copy when you can. You may regret it if you don't. I have several books, some dated, but BJA3 is my go to.

I played four hours today and never once had a good count. The count also never got really bad either. It was such a grind and actually not that much fun. I was up about $100 on a 10$ table but I quit once I got back down to my original buy in.

Quote: GWAE

I played four hours today and never once had a good count. The count also never got really bad either. It was such a grind and actually not that much fun. I was up about $100 on a 10$ table but I quit once I got back down to my original buy in.

Welcome to shoe games. Be patient and don't try to force it.

That part is really tough. There were times where the dealer just kept busting but the count was low and everyone was making some money. I just kept the course and didnt get sucked in.