Blackjack bots ?

I know there was blackjack bots used to clear casinos bonuses wagering requirements. I just found one of them (called "Bonus Miner") which is fully customizable: you can set it to take a break of a variable timeframe set into a range after a variable number of hands played, then it will resume play. You can also set it to have a variable number of seconds to make a play decision, and you can also set it to make mistakes after a variable number of hands which you set up.

It also have mouse movement, can be run in stealth mode (hidden from screen) and it will appear as firefox running process in your task manager. I am not promoting it, (by the way - it is free) but I am enumerating its characteristics because I think this will help me to get to my point of making this thread.

What I wonder, is if there are blackjack bots (with the same characteristics - because having all these characteristics it will be near impossible for the casinos surveillance teams to prove that you were using a bot ?) which are able to play any Multihand Blackjack game. (preferably which is able to screen read on any flash website and/or downloaded software) - I believe these bots would be able to heavily exploit Single Deck Multihand blackjack games (where the initial house edge is no higher than 0.27%) where you can set the bot to always bet the minimum on the first two hands and the maximum on the last hand in 3rd base, because it will be able to make basic strategy deviations implementing full indexes in play according to a full card dependent strategy based on the (at least 7) cards he sees out of the deck (~ 13.5% penetration) which will give ~ 0.45 in player edge, and so the game will turn on overall with a ~ 0.2 total player edge.

I believe you can play two full rounds which equals with 6 hands/1minute (depending of the casino software) which means 360 hands/hour. If the player edge is 0.2%, then the player will win ~ $24/hour at $1 bets for the first two hands and $100 bets for the last hand in 3rd base. This , in itself is some steady profit, but if the table max is $500 or higher ? Imagine that ! All a player will need is just to have enough cash in his account so he can use proper Kelly and beat variance.

And another type of blackjack bots I would be interested to know if exist, are (fully customizable - to avoid red flags of being labeled as a card counter) Live Dealer Blackjack Bot Counters. And by fully customizable I mean, you should be able to set it to never decrease its bet after a win, and never increase its bet after a lose - I believe this trick will blow anyone who is looking to detect card counters, But ofcourse it will cost some serious player EV, but as I have read on WizardOfOdds website, if you have enough spread and a game with not very bad rules, and a penetration of at least 66%, the game will still be VERY profitable.

On the internet you will not find any Live Dealer Blackjack game with a penetration higher than 50%, and this is very bad, that maybe (not sure) a spread of 1 to 15 will not beat the game. But I believe it still can be easily beaten with a higher spread, and as I see now there are rooms where will allow you a spread of 1 to 250, which I believe, can blow any house advantage on positive counts even if the penetration is tiny while the games are fair (no 10s missing or stacked) ?

Or you can set the bot to always (wong in and out) flat bet, but just stay in watch mode when the count goes negative (or TC=+1 and below).

Or you can set the bot to play a mickey mouse - bet $20 on counts of 2 and below and $90 on true counts of 2 and above if the game have good rules.

And this bot besides keeping the exact true count in very depth, should also keep track of all cards dealt out of the remaining decks and adjust its playing decisions according to this information also, plus it should have same characteristics as Bonus Miner bot in breaks and time to act. - Is there such a thing ?

Interesting post. Variance would be quite high spreading 1 to 250. I do not think the teeny advantage you may gain outweighs the possible problem of not being paid if you actually do win. And lets not forget someone on the other end might just dedcide to fix the game against you, leaving you to appy to Marunastan's court system for your complaint.....

this is called depth charging, and has been around since before the internet. it works if you spread enough and play perfectly, but it would quickly be spotted by their management and they might not pay you, like soopoo said

Good luck finding an operator who will pay you after the obvious 1:100 spread on single deck.

" Good luck finding an operator who will pay you " MangoJ could have stopped right there in almost all cases !

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Why play at an online casino?...there is a very real chance they're not paying you. Especially if you play with a BJ-bot. That just gives them a plausible reason not to pay you. Don't do it.

Well, I am not very enthusiastic after reading these responses .. I agree that there may be a pretty big problem in finding a group which will pay (and not reject from further play) after one guy wins a very large amount. Though, I don`t know if that is the case.

But in what I am interested for, is to find out if such bots do actually exist and can be used, or some geeks keeps those in secret ?

Quote: MangoJ

Good luck finding an operator who will pay you after the obvious 1:100 spread on single deck.

As long as they are not able to prove that the player was a robot, and the player did not played with a bonus, why they wouldn`t pay ?

Though, it is very likely that once they notices how that player played, they may pay the player, but restrict him from further play...

" why they wouldn`t pay ? " Rather, why the hell would they ? Thieves are thieves, after all !

Quote: Buzzard

" why they wouldn`t pay ? " Rather, why the hell would they ? Thieves are thieves, after all !

If a player would actually do that type of play in a single deck (1 to 100 spread) and would make $24/hour, he would win less than $7500 on a month playing at 10 hours @ 30 days, and I believe he would need at least a $10000 deposit as bankroll in his cashier.

Many online reputable sportsbooks (which also have land based offices) are paying these amounts on a go. Why not pay a lucky guy ?

Quote: PlayHunter

As long as they are not able to prove that the player was a robot

Why would they need to prove anything ? They might just say to you: "You played with a bot which voids all play. You will only get your deposit.". When you object, they just say "All management decisions are final.". And then you would be really lucky getting your deposit.

So what will you do ? Going to court ? In Gibraltar or Cyprus or whereever they are licensed ?

Quote: MangoJ

Why would they need to prove anything ? They might just say to you: "You played with a bot which voids all play. You will only get your deposit.". When you object, they just say "All management decisions are final.". And then you would be really lucky getting your deposit.

So what will you do ? Going to court ? In Gibraltar or Cyprus or whereever they are licensed ?

Going to a court is very expensive, and may be the last resort. But for the first phase, if they are a big company, I do believe they will care about their image and reputation, so I will defend my case by exposing my experience with them on some public forums such as Sportsbookreview, Gambling Grumbles, Casino Meister, GPWA, and maybe more (one by one, not all at once). There we will have mediators asking them to publicly prove that their decision stands in their rights to void my winnings. I think publicity is a strong tool..

As for getting my $10000 deposit back, I think I may be able to do a chargeback if everything else fails .. ? So they have to prove..

Anyway, this discussion is pure theoretical, in the first place I never did a chargeback (but I know how it works because I have read a lot of things about it from people who did it) and in the second place, I do not have this amount of money, so this is not the case.

But again, all I am interested for is to find out if such bots do exists, and not really if I might or not be paid after using them.

Firstly, I think what MangoJ is trying to tell you is; you CANNOT go to court in (insert random banana republic here)...and have any reasonable chance to win. Zero chance would be my guess. The reason online casinos are based wherever; is because that's where they have some sort of legal protections in that country. So the expense and/or hassle of suing a company overseas is the least of your problems if it comes to that. Like trying to get stolen Nazi gold out of the Swiss banking system. (what gold? we ain't got no gold...in german or french I assume).

Secondly, good luck getting a chargeback on a credit card for what may be an illegal transaction (assuming you are US based) in the first place. So I'll say it again.....this is a bad idea don't do it.

Since you seem interested in the theoretical aspects...then yes I guess it could work..theoretically..but this is the real world.

Quote: PlayHunter

I think publicity is a strong tool..

Do you mean before or after you write everywhere you are looking for a bot ?

I think that u are on to something but need a huge bankroll to accomplish it.. not saying u don't have the roll but what I like about the idea is that you can leverage ur time and do other stuff why u are constantly making money.. the game can be beat with a 50 percent pen, but needs a huge huge bankroll and the risk there is ur talking about something north of 100k to make and real money........it would be hard to trust a 100k to someone online casino even if they are legit... cause if they catch you with a bot there is achance you may not get ur money... I guess this would be ok idea if you had 2 million dollars cause if they take your 100k from you its really isn't going to affect ur life style. but if you have like 500k and you loose 100k cause they catch... you just lost 25% of your liquid net worth.... not fun stuff.


I like ur creativity... keep using it and you prob will find more lucrative stuff in land base casinos

Quote: PlayHunter

Going to a court is very expensive, and may be the last resort.

It's expensive in US and some other countries.

In this case it's going to be very cheap: after a couple of years of having your application lie in a box, it may or may not be processed, and if it is processed, you'll receive a standard form rejection letter. What makes you think you have any rights before the court of $randomnation that you can't even enter except on a tourist visa?

IANAL, but AFAIK there has to be an explicit international agreement between your country and the target country for such a right to exist. And UN isn't going to intervene for you.

Quote: PlayHunter

But for the first phase, if they are a big company

So the question is, what big reputable companies based in major Western nations are still offering sizable +EV promotions that can be cleared on single-deck BJ?

Quote: MangoJ

Do you mean before or after you write everywhere you are looking for a bot ?

This is the best ! Guess I will have to take this into account. Darn, should have used some different nickname to ask about it ! :-)

On a serious note, no, that is no concern for me, because honestly I will not use a blackjack bot to cheat a casino. As I said, my interest is pure theoretical, I do not have the needed bankroll (not even $10.000), and more than that I am a Christian, and I know that a cheat means fraud, and I believe that any man who try to cheat anyone, sooner or later he will find greatly cheated himself.

Though, if I would have the bankroll, I am not saying I would not be playing it manually from time to time just for the satisfaction.

Quote: P90

The question is, what big reputable companies based in major Western nations are still offering sizable +EV promotions that can be cleared on single-deck BJ?

This is good question. To be honest, I am not sure what "reputable" really means for big names companies anymore nowadays.

I have read a lot of bad things on forums about really big names screwing up seemingly honest players.

Someone earlier must have made a great point to reflect on over the fact that one should not trust a (big) legit bookie with 100K.

Big difference between sportsbooks and casinos.

Quote: Buzzard

Big difference between sportsbooks and casinos.

My mistake then, I should specify casinos which are owned by some big sportsbooks like WilliamHill, 888, Betfair, Ladbrokes etc.

I agree. Most of the bonuses people chase are at no-name casinos. Doesn't matter if you win or not, you ain't getting paid.

Quote: Buzzard

I agree. Most of the bonuses people chase are at no-name casinos. Doesn't matter if you win or not, you ain't getting paid.

Bonuses are meant for trouble with all companies, small or big. Small companies don`t care too much about their image.

But the type of exploit I am talking about here, it really does not imply any bonuses but just VIP size player cash deposits.

But when the stakes are that high, I believe even working with big names can be problem when the player keeps winning.

All right, now that you've mentioned names, I know what and exactly what it is that you have in mind.

It works. You have to be a real player, however, so that they don't freeze you. Keep records of play in various segments, sportsbook, poker, other games. Space deposits and withdrawals out a month or more. Make bets in proportion to your bankroll.

If you're willing to run it high-risk, it's best done as a real human too. As for bots, well, at least one of those is pretty strict on it.