Simple Counting Methods
Pinetop has stated that he's okay with breaking even but are you? If you want to make a profit you'll need a stronger count than Ace- 5. If you want to hustle comps Ace-5 can fill the bill but why not get both?
Consider one of the counts mentioned here. They're really not that difficult.
Quote: pinetopSorry I neglected to add that I play 6 deck shoes exclusively since all the casinos that I have visited locally have reduced the BJ payout on single deck to 6/5. Thanks for the info. I'll continue to learn red 7 count and not spend any time on Ace-5. Maybe when I have red 7 down pat, I'll look at Ace-5, but I suspect that when I get to that point, I may look at something more advanced.
If you don't already have it get Arnold Snyder's book entitled Blackbelt in Blackjack. It covers his red 7 count and something more advanced called the zen count, a very powerful count that I can vouch for. That one is way, way down the road. Focus on red 7 until you can do it perfectly.
Quote: pinetopNot to muddy the waters, but I've been reading past articles of Blackjack Insider. In the March 4 issue (#50) they talk about a simple counting system called the speed count. Is anyone familiar with it? Does it work? And finally, if it does, how does it compare with red seven?
See Ace in AC thread,
Quote: pinetopNot to muddy the waters, but I've been reading past articles of Blackjack Insider. In the March 4 issue (#50) they talk about a simple counting system called the speed count. Is anyone familiar with it? Does it work? And finally, if it does, how does it compare with red seven?
Speed Count is discussed in detail by its creators in a book called 'Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution.' The author is Frank Scoblete, who gets a lot of grief for his views on dice control (seminars available...). For further info, see all the threads created herein by Aceofspades concerning his exploits in Atlantic City.
I personally believe Speed Count is a very useful tool for the serious, but non-professional, BJ player. You give up a little bit against being a true counter, but the Basic Strategy is such that it provides rather nice 'cover' against the threat of casino expulsion, and it is an easier math exercise.
Quote: Mikey75Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how either red 7's or what I can find out about speed count is that much easier than hi-lo. Everyone seems to agree that neither red 7's or speed count is as powerful as the hi-lo count. I think I'm going to put my effort into hi-lo and see if I can't learn it properly and forget about the rest.
I personally have never used an unbalanced count. I have used Hi-Lo and it is my choice for the two people that I am currently training. It will get you the money and it becomes more powerful when index play and a few other things are added.
If you remain committed it will become second nature. I can count down two tables at once or interact with the pit and players and deal with all the other distractions without losing the count and you can too.
Mikey, since you seem to be somewhat serious I'll just say it. Don't waste your time with Ace-5 or Speed Count. I'm not saying they don't work but my sole purpose is to make money so they don't work for me.
Quote: Mikey75Thanks 1BB. I appreciate the advice. I have a 6 deck shoe and I have been running through hands trying to keep count. I can glance over the cards and tell you exactly what count is showing. I can also guess pretty accurately the amount of cards left in the tray to get my true count. What I'm having problems with is remembering the running count. There is no way at this point that I can interact with the dealer, pit boss, and other players and not forget the count. Do you have any suggestions to help remember the count or any techniques to use to keep up with it?
There's a few things you can do. Try this... take 6 decks, shuffle them together, then take a 52-card clump and see how fast you can accurately do a running count on it. You should be able to do the entire deck in under 30 seconds. Then start the 2nd deck at the old RC. Do that till you get through all 6 decks. Doing it fast in short bursts should help you remember the RC.
Interacting with dealers and players and floor personnel is very distracting at first. But as you become more familiar and at home in the pit, it will become second nature to carry on the count while also socializing. Trust me, it seems alien at first but it becomes very familiar.
If you drive a car, remember back to your first time driving with your driving instructor or someone who taught you how to drive. It would probably have been a lot harder to carry on conversations during that first trip than it is for you to drive and talk to someone today. It's the same thing. There's nothing special about the casino environment. It will get easier with familiarity.
Quote: Mikey75I also wanted to ask, is it ok to ask the dealer how many decks are being used?
It's ok to ask sure....but you should be able to tell 6 decks from 8 decks just at a glance.
Quote: BuzzardSee Ace in AC thread,
How do I find AC thread? When I use the search function at the top of this page, it sends me to Google.
Quote: Mikey75Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how either red 7's or what I can find out about speed count is that much easier than hi-lo. Everyone seems to agree that neither red 7's or speed count is as powerful as the hi-lo count. I think I'm going to put my effort into hi-lo and see if I can't learn it properly and forget about the rest.
I agree. Red seven is not as powerful as hi-lo. But I'm a real newbie at counting. Right now it takes me over 40 seconds to count down a single deck so I have a lot of work (practice) to do in this area. Rather than jumping in and learning a more complicated counting method I want to start on something less difficult and then work my way up. The reason I am concentrating on red seven rather than hi-lo is that I don't have to be concerned with converting running count to true count. Once I get the running count, which I believe in red 7 is the true count with a small loss in effectiveness compared to hi-lo, then I can take the next step and move into something more advanced. I'm trying to take this one step at a time rather than jumping in, trying to learn a difficult (for me) system and then giving up because it's too hard. I know you have to walk before you can run, but at the point I'm at, I have to crawl before I can walk. Red 7 seems to me to be the most effective system for me to learn at this point. I take my hat off to guys who can start out with a more complicated system, but as Dirty Harry once said, " A man's got to know his limitations".
Quote: Mikey75I understand what you are saying about learning a easier system. I'm in the same boat your are in and just starting out. For me I just don't see where red sevens is that much easier than hi-lo. Again maybe I am missing something. I would rather take a running count and divide it by the number of decks left than to start negitive in the count. But that's where I have a bit of a problem counting. When the count is negitive I have to think a second to work it out. I definatly know you got to walk before you can run and if there was a easier system (like A-5 ) that would give a significant advantage I'd definatly start with that. I just don't think for me that red 7's is that much easier than hi-lo.
With Red 7 (or any unbalanced count) you can always adjust the IRC (initial running count) to make the negative counts much less likely. For example, I use a frankenstein hybrid of Red 7 and KISS III that is good enough for me (just a hobby counter); the IRC starts at 21 - (decks * 2). So for a 6 deck shoe, the IRC is 9, and hence you don't get in to the negatives much.
Quote: Mikey75It's in the blackjack section of this forum. It's titled AC Ace. The author of the post Ace uses the speed count method.
OK. I get to the blackjack section. Then what do I do?
Blackjack using the speed count method.
Quote: Mikey75Look for the thread titled AC Ace. He just spent a weekend at Atlantic City playing
Blackjack using the speed count method.
Ok. I got it. Interesting read. Thanks.
