What is a proper betting ramp?
March 4th, 2013 at 5:45:47 PM
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I'm curious as to the betting ramp people use. I am trying to improve my game and I'm curious as to how those who successfully sustain themselves with bj play do it. I've read in Ian Anderson's books that you should chip up after a win and not raise after a loss unless you can make it look like you are chasing. But I usually play dd and it would seem to me that I would need a more aggressive ramp when the count jumps up in order to take advantage since the shoe will not last as long. Recently I have been playing reds while I build my bankroll, and during my last trip to Vegas I was spreading $5-$50. At times I would jump my bets up from min to my max from one hand to the next, I was not getting any heat. But I assume if I was to do this over a long session or when I move up to greens this would get me heat. If anyone could provide insight on their techniques and how i should ramp up with a little more finesse I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks everybody!
March 4th, 2013 at 6:34:37 PM
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I know there are many players who worship Ian Anderson, via his 2 books. I am not one. His methods involve heavy camouflage, which is very costly and was designed mainly for big money players. Anyone playing at red and green levels can not afford to give up this much of their already slim edge and frankly shouldn't have to, especially at the red chip level. The games are crappy, ruleswise and tables full. Again, you can not afford to give up any of your very slim edge.
Chipping up is way too slow. In double deck games the count can move dramatically from hand to hand. You need to bet as aggressively as you can, with the count or as close to it. You don't want to waste 3 or 4 hands of max bet counts working your way up to the max bet level. Now obviously, you can't jump from your minimum wager of $5 to max of $50, but geez, I would jump from $5 to at least $20, if the count calls for it and then double up to $40, win or lose, on the next hand. If you win that initial $20 wager, it looks like you are parlaying, if you lose it looks like you are chasing losses.
Now shoe games it may be even more important to bet with the count and not chip up to get there. In shoe games the count will move slower, with the exception of very deep into the shoe, so you won't have to make as many sudden big jumps, but in shoe games the good counts come around so infrequently, you gotta hit them when they do. You can't waste the infrequent opportunities chipping up.
Remember, the problem with spreading is not the spreading upwards. It is what you do at the end of the shoe at the shuffle that is the big tell. In other words it is the reverting back from a large wager to the smaller waiting bet at the start of a new shoe or shuffle that gives you away. So be creative and find ways to avoid that and you can spread like mad. (most places....el cortez type places excluded)
Chipping up is way too slow. In double deck games the count can move dramatically from hand to hand. You need to bet as aggressively as you can, with the count or as close to it. You don't want to waste 3 or 4 hands of max bet counts working your way up to the max bet level. Now obviously, you can't jump from your minimum wager of $5 to max of $50, but geez, I would jump from $5 to at least $20, if the count calls for it and then double up to $40, win or lose, on the next hand. If you win that initial $20 wager, it looks like you are parlaying, if you lose it looks like you are chasing losses.
Now shoe games it may be even more important to bet with the count and not chip up to get there. In shoe games the count will move slower, with the exception of very deep into the shoe, so you won't have to make as many sudden big jumps, but in shoe games the good counts come around so infrequently, you gotta hit them when they do. You can't waste the infrequent opportunities chipping up.
Remember, the problem with spreading is not the spreading upwards. It is what you do at the end of the shoe at the shuffle that is the big tell. In other words it is the reverting back from a large wager to the smaller waiting bet at the start of a new shoe or shuffle that gives you away. So be creative and find ways to avoid that and you can spread like mad. (most places....el cortez type places excluded)
March 4th, 2013 at 7:38:20 PM
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Quote: kewljYou need to bet as aggressively as you can, with the count or as close to it.
What do you mean by with the count? I had been planning to open a new thread to ask about this but since you mention it maybe you could help. How do you determine how many units to bet per whatever the count is? ( you would use tc right, not rc?) I usually chip up if the count edges up after a hand, and if its +4-5 tc I throw my max out. Im sure that i am not doing this as effeciently as i could because i just lack the knowledge and understanding.I'm trying to develop and refine my play as much as possible and feel that this is an area I really need to nail down. I really appreciate your insight and advise.
March 4th, 2013 at 8:04:28 PM
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Based on the Kelly Criterion, and your bankroll, you should have an optimal amount to bet at any count level. I'm sure the active counters have a good idea what their numbers are. I just wing it now, since I don't play as much as I used to. I used to keep a spreadsheet with my bankroll, and the kelly formula showing each optimal (and rounded) bet for each TC value.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
March 4th, 2013 at 9:19:10 PM
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Proper win ramp??? I prefer win% scaling.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
