morpheus74
morpheus74
Joined: May 17, 2012
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June 5th, 2012 at 10:35:17 AM permalink
Hello,

I've developed a program that tests counting cards and classic betting systems in blackjack, including cancellation. Of course, cancellation is adapted to doubling-down and splitting, in a very similar way to the one that you propose. Player allways has a target (betting units to get= sum of numbers in line). If because doubling or splitting, the player achieves the target before clearing the line, then the line is cleared and starts a new line or the game ends.

Here you can see the results playing 1.000.000 games, 30 hands per game. These are the blackjack rules used: blackjack pays 3 to 2, 6 decks, 70% penetration, dealer stands on soft 17, double after split allowed, no resplitting aces, and the basic strategy suitable for these rules.

Minimum bet=5, maximum bet=500, betting unit=10, initial bankroll=1000

Cancellation line=1,1,1


img=http://www.theblackjacksimulator.com/samples/c30b1000.jpg



This chart means that if you play with this configuration when you go to casino:

You average bet will be 45,66
24,82% times final bankroll will be in 1200-1300 range
23,8% times final bankroll will be in 1100-1200 range
1,03% times final bankroll will be 0
and so on

The average house hold is very similar to the obtained betting flat.

Of course I know the ten commandments, I know that betting systems are not magic, and no one can beat the house edge.

However, this system is not a bad system. I don't like flat betting, I like a more exciting way of betting, knowing that in most cases i'll get small profits, despite occasional big losses (this happens when playing with lower bankroll than in this example)

The question is to know which betting system is better (because it has the lower house hold, similar to flat betting) with parameters (bankroll, betting unit and hands to play) that I could use in real casinos.

Sorry for my english, it could be better, I'm from Spain.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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June 5th, 2012 at 10:40:46 AM permalink
" Sorry for my english, it could be better, I'm from Spain. "

I am sorry that the average USA high school graduate's English is not as good as yours.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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June 5th, 2012 at 7:03:27 PM permalink
Morpheus74,

I have no means by which I could adequately express my appreciation for you coming up with that chart. I expected that the system would not be profitable in the long run, of course, but I am extremely pleased to find that it is, "Not a bad system," as far as systems go. You also speak English incredibly well. Having been an English Major (for two years, prior to switching to Economics) I detect no grammatical errors.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
morpheus74
morpheus74
Joined: May 17, 2012
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 12
June 6th, 2012 at 12:01:40 AM permalink
Thanks. Perhaps I writte english well, but believe me, speaking is another question :-)

The chart is accurate with parameters I tested it, with other parameters, the chart could be very different.

If you want, I can generate a chart with parameters you choose: bankroll, hands per game, betting unit. Also the program has the traditional cancellation system that doesn't care about doubling down or splitting and allways plays the entire cancellation line. Of course, this system is worse for low bankrolls (riskier).

The program is online at www.theblackjacksimulator.com, the trial version is free. The full version is sold for a low price (19$) but i can send you it for free if you are interested.

Anyway, now I'm testing all systems included (flat betting, martingale, paroli, cancellation, D'alembert, Oscar's Grind and counting cards) and I'll post the results here. The parameters that I'm using are quite reasonable (I think) for the poor gamblers as me:

Bankroll 200, Betting unit 5, games of one-hour (70 hands).

In Spain I can't count cards because all casinos have CSMs. Maybe, this will change in the future, when Eurovegas has been built (Sheldon Adelson is deciding now between Madrid and Barcelona). Eurovegas will be the largest casino area in Europe, I hope that there will be casinos with card shoes instead of CSMs.

So I need a not very risky and reasonably good system since flat betting is boring to me. And your proposed systems is not bad, as you say, as far as systems go under certain parameters.

Regards
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 132
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June 6th, 2012 at 8:35:40 PM permalink
Quote: morpheus74

Thanks. Perhaps I writte english well, but believe me, speaking is another question :-)

The chart is accurate with parameters I tested it, with other parameters, the chart could be very different.

If you want, I can generate a chart with parameters you choose: bankroll, hands per game, betting unit. Also the program has the traditional cancellation system that doesn't care about doubling down or splitting and allways plays the entire cancellation line. Of course, this system is worse for low bankrolls (riskier).

The program is online at www.theblackjacksimulator.com, the trial version is free. The full version is sold for a low price (19$) but i can send you it for free if you are interested.

Anyway, now I'm testing all systems included (flat betting, martingale, paroli, cancellation, D'alembert, Oscar's Grind and counting cards) and I'll post the results here. The parameters that I'm using are quite reasonable (I think) for the poor gamblers as me:

Bankroll 200, Betting unit 5, games of one-hour (70 hands).

In Spain I can't count cards because all casinos have CSMs. Maybe, this will change in the future, when Eurovegas has been built (Sheldon Adelson is deciding now between Madrid and Barcelona). Eurovegas will be the largest casino area in Europe, I hope that there will be casinos with card shoes instead of CSMs.

So I need a not very risky and reasonably good system since flat betting is boring to me. And your proposed systems is not bad, as you say, as far as systems go under certain parameters.

Regards



I'm going to try the trial version later this evening, if I have the chance. I would only want you to send me the full version for free if you are the one who made the full version (and do not mind doing so) or if the User Agreement does not prevent you from doing such a thing. If there were such a User Agreement, then I suspect that it might.

I could try to explain briefly how my system works exactly, and you could try to plug it in to the full version if you wanted to, but there are a ton of variables. For one thing, there is no minimum/maximum hands per game, the line either completes, or it does not. Every single line is treated seperately, in that regard. The, "Bankroll," would just be whatever the Max allowable bet is, which I think I made the Table Max $500, but you likely would not hit $500 exactly because no bet may ever exceed the Max Bet, nor may you bet all of the chips you have left at any given time, or what have you, in lieu of the next bet demanded by the system. You would just walk away with whatever amount of money you had left and start your lines again with another $1,000.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
morpheus74
morpheus74
Joined: May 17, 2012
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  • Posts: 12
June 6th, 2012 at 10:55:10 PM permalink
Yes, I'm the author of both versions, so there's no problem, don't worry about that. I would send it from the official e-mail address: admin@theblackjacksimulator.com

In the program, there are 3 ways of ending a game, and you can simulate up to 10.000.000 games:

-Because a number of hands have been played.
-Because bankruptcy
-Because a target bankroll has been reached.

So, it's easy to end a game when the line is completed. For example, if the line is 2,2,2,2,2 then the target bankroll would be initial bankroll + 10 betting units.

If ,for example, betting unit=10 and Initial bankroll = 1000 (as you propose), target bankroll would be 1000+10*10 = 1100. So, setting bankroll target = 110% of initial bankroll, would do it.

About table limits, you can change them, 500 is the default value.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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June 7th, 2012 at 4:11:00 AM permalink
Quote: morpheus74

Yes, I'm the author of both versions, so there's no problem, don't worry about that. I would send it from the official e-mail address: admin@theblackjacksimulator.com

In the program, there are 3 ways of ending a game, and you can simulate up to 10.000.000 games:

-Because a number of hands have been played.
-Because bankruptcy
-Because a target bankroll has been reached.

So, it's easy to end a game when the line is completed. For example, if the line is 2,2,2,2,2 then the target bankroll would be initial bankroll + 10 betting units.

If ,for example, betting unit=10 and Initial bankroll = 1000 (as you propose), target bankroll would be 1000+10*10 = 1100. So, setting bankroll target = 110% of initial bankroll, would do it.

About table limits, you can change them, 500 is the default value.



That's certainly much appreciated, however, let me give the trial version a run (I have not yet had the opportunity to do so) and I will consider the purchase of the full version. Your livlihood depends, in part, on the sale of the full version, so I would not want you to provide it to me at no charge. On the other hand, the full version may well simply tell me what I already know, which is that all systems will ultimately fail to the tune of something very close to the EV of the game...

It's very difficult for me to say when I will have the chance to try the trial version, but I shall do it as soon as possible. I noticed that it must be downloaded, and I hesitate to download anything on the work computer, but my home PC and laptop take half of forever to download anything. I should certainly try to download the trial version within two weeks time, as I am not off for another ten days and only then will I have the time to test it adequately.

In any event, your website is very well-designed and your trial version looks interesting, so I look forward to taking a closer look.

I appreciate your assistance and friendliness in this matter, as well.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
morpheus74
morpheus74
Joined: May 17, 2012
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 12
June 8th, 2012 at 6:23:40 AM permalink
Ok, take your time, no problem.

Don't worry, my livelihood doesn't depend on this program at all, I have my job. I liked to develope the software, but I know I'll not get rich with it. If I can get a little money, perfect, since it took me several months to develope it.

So, if you like the trial version, I'll send you the full version for free. The only thing I ask for you is your feedback, please tell me pros, cons, something to improve etc.

Thanks
only1choice
only1choice
Joined: Jul 8, 2010
  • Threads: 59
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June 8th, 2012 at 6:31:52 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

That's certainly much appreciated, I appreciate your assistance and friendliness in this matter, as well.



Could you give lessons on how to conduct yourself on a forum?
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
only1choice
only1choice
Joined: Jul 8, 2010
  • Threads: 59
  • Posts: 386
June 8th, 2012 at 6:32:42 AM permalink
Quote: morpheus74

Ok, take your time, no problem.

Don't worry, my livelihood doesn't depend on this program at all, I have my job. I liked to develope the software, but I know I'll not get rich with it. If I can get a little money, perfect, since it took me several months to develope it.

So, if you like the trial version, I'll send you the full version for free. The only thing I ask for you is your feedback, please tell me pros, cons, something to improve etc.

Thanks



Lessons from you also.
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"

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