Abundance Mentality

So I stumbled onto this comment in a thread, "An abundance mentality is needed to win big and to win consistently."

At first glance, this would seem to be some non-specific phrase about some squishy personal concept. But since I occasionally keep track of self-help junk, whether it be crystals or various forms of "if you wish it, it will happen," I knew that "abundance mentality" is actually a thing promoted by several books. It features such progressive concepts as, "The 10 Differences Between Rich and Poor People."

So, I wanted to mention one thing about the comment containing the phrase, and then ask the mods and Mr. Shackleford a question.

The comment, "An abundance mentality is needed to win big and to win consistently" is stylistically a clever phrase. It does NOT directly say or suggest that one will win overall with this "abundance mentality." It does, however promote that WHEN one wins, it will be BIG, and that one will win CONSISTENTLY. The word "consistently" is itself interesting here in that it also does not suggest overall winning. The word "consistently" can be interpreted in a range of ways. Winning one time in 10 is by pure denotative meaning "winning consistently" as long as one consistently wins 1 out of 10 times over and over. Winning 9 out 10 times is also, technically by definition, "winning consistently" as long as one wins 9 out of 10 times, over and over.

Thus, the phrase, "An abundance mentality is needed to win big and to win consistently" actually means nothing precise. But it is offered as a kind of gambling strategy.

The question I have for the mods and Mr. Shackleford, is whether self-help jargon featuring things like, "The 10 Differences Between Rich and Poor People" really should be featured as gambling strategy and advice on the WoV forum? My presumption is that math doesn't change based on one's wealth. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong....

Quote: redietz

So I stumbled onto this comment in a thread, "An abundance mentality is needed to win big and to win consistently."

I would prefer to see an explanation of this phrase to comment. However, if this something like "The Secret," as in the power of positive thinking, I would disagree 100%.

To win consistently, one must play with an advantage and play long enough to ride out the short-term ups and downs.

Quote: redietz

The question I have for the mods and Mr. Shackleford, is whether self-help jargon featuring things like, "The 10 Differences Between Rich and Poor People" really should be featured as gambling strategy and advice on the WoV forum? My presumption is that math doesn't change based on one's wealth. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong....
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It is easier to net a $1000 win starting with $200000 than $200.

Quote: redietz

The question I have for the mods and Mr. Shackleford, is whether self-help jargon featuring things like, "The 10 Differences Between Rich and Poor People" really should be featured as gambling strategy and advice on the WoV forum? My presumption is that math doesn't change based on one's wealth. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong....
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(Quote clipped, relevance)

People can post what they want in threads. Something being said in a thread hardly makes it, "Featured," and nor can it be said that the site itself promotes that view.

If it is your position that everything said on this site vis-a-vis strategy and gambling advice is supported by the site, then your position is simply wrong. I'm paid to write for the sites, but that doesn't mean that management/ownership is necessarily going to agree with everything I say.

I agree with the rest of what you said and would add that self-help jargon, in general, is absolute garbage whether or not it's applied to gambling.

I think its important to understand that there are three distinct types of gambling.

Category 1:Games where effort and preparation make a difference (and that can be +EV): Examples:
- Poker (vs opponents)
- Sports betting
- FanDuels-type contests
- Card-counting + learning strategy at Blackjack (a weaker example, perhaps)
- AP plays (in general)

Category 2: Games that are -EV where effort makes no difference
- Keno
- Lotteries
- Slots
- Craps
- Roulette
- Baccarat (assuming no +EV side bets)
- Wheel of Fortune

Catgeory 3:Games that are -EV where effort and preparation can reduce your expected rate of loss
- Poker-variant table games
- Video poker
- Blackjack without card counting

For the games in Category 1, I would be in general lukewarm agreement that "An abundance mentality is needed to win big and to win consistently." Because preparation and drive make a difference,

For category 2 games, An Abundance mentality makes no difference.

For category 3 games, An Abundance mentality may help you to lose less quickly and to have a winning session somewhat more frequently, but it will not help you to win consistently.

im not sure how you became an admin but here goes:

Redietz, 99% or more in the casino are not trying to make money no indeed they are just there to have fun, only people trying to make money are losers, and those who have been successful at it for many years. video poker is actualy very profitable if done right (mostly means which casino and which game) but anyway Redietz yea you need an edge, bankroll, brains and balls , put all 4 together you might win long term every betting system has been tried n true and all failed anything your meager brain can conjure up will suffer the same fate as all the others after a million turns. with that said you need a an edge and no amount of believe or bankroll or positive thinking will gain u an edge but again 99.9% of people in the casino are there to blow off some steam=)) i say that with a smile cause its true.

btw card counting is a good way to get kixed out of the casino once spotted good luck having 75ish hours per store or better yet be mobile
or just change your name to [admin redacted] and your immune to all bans and back offs altogether!

Quote: Wizard

To win consistently, one must play with an advantage and play long enough to ride out the short-term ups and downs.
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That is a "math answer." While the math has to be there without the right mentality it will not help you,

Lets limit the idea to games you can get an actual edge. Poker, sportsbook, shoe-dealt BJ, accumulator slots, and the like. In poker one of the first rules is "scared money cannot win." Same with the rest. To walk into the casino thinking you are betting your last $100 is just throwing it away. You will not make the math work for you. If you do not hit right away you will quit. You will not put the money needed into a soft poker room, or on a bad line at the sportsbook.

It is the same in business. Weak salespeople who are always broke fail because the prospects can sense that is what they are and do not buy what they are selling. Contractors who are desperate for business never get the business. Those who know they will be OK whether they get that job or not do great.

Same with making wagers. When you think you are broke you make bad decisions. When you feel you have abundance you just take a bad loss as a lesson what not to do.

Couple of glaring errors in group 2. Figure it out for yourselves. I’m with Carl!

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Wizard

To win consistently, one must play with an advantage and play long enough to ride out the short-term ups and downs.
link to original post

That is a "math answer." While the math has to be there without the right mentality it will not help you,

Lets limit the idea to games you can get an actual edge. Poker, sportsbook, shoe-dealt BJ, accumulator slots, and the like. In poker one of the first rules is "scared money cannot win." Same with the rest. To walk into the casino thinking you are betting your last $100 is just throwing it away. You will not make the math work for you. If you do not hit right away you will quit. You will not put the money needed into a soft poker room, or on a bad line at the sportsbook.

It is the same in business. Weak salespeople who are always broke fail because the prospects can sense that is what they are and do not buy what they are selling. Contractors who are desperate for business never get the business. Those who know they will be OK whether they get that job or not do great.

Same with making wagers. When you think you are broke you make bad decisions. When you feel you have abundance you just take a bad loss as a lesson what not to do.
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I might agree with you when it comes to decision-making games of skill like poker and sports handicapping.

When I first started playing, every day that I entered a casino I was playing with "scared money" however, the higher percentages I was working with gave me the confidence I needed. I knew if I just got the hours in, I would make money. I didn't have access to all the information they have nowadays. I never even heard of ROR or Kelly, I didn't have any VP programs, computer, strategy cards, or anything like that, until later on.

I always hear you have to have a good positive attitude to make money VIA Advantage Play. That's total rubbish, you can be the biggest negative nancy in the world, as long as you play with an advantage and use the correct strategy the math will kick in. I will say that an overly positive attitude will get many people in trouble with overbetting their bankroll by thinking they will surely win.

Quote: AZDuffman

In poker one of the first rules is "scared money cannot win." Same with the rest. To walk into the casino thinking you are betting your last $100 is just throwing it away. You will not make the math work for you.
link to original post

This seems to describe a high risk of ruin situation.

It may be a good play, just not suitable for your current bankroll.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AZDuffman

In poker one of the first rules is "scared money cannot win." Same with the rest. To walk into the casino thinking you are betting your last $100 is just throwing it away. You will not make the math work for you.
link to original post

This seems to describe a high risk of ruin situation.

It may be a good play, just not suitable for your current bankroll.
link to original post

Maybe kinda sorta. But not exactly

Lets use a business example. Some managers are top-line drivers while others are bottom-line watchers. The bottom line watcher will very often do better short-term as you can always hack a few more costs out of a business. But they never grow things. They think the top-line is limited. Meanwhile, the top-line driver thinks there is always more business out there. So just a matter of finding it.

Somewhere in "Gambling Wizards" it discusses how gamblers go bust time to time but make their way back. And how other gamblers will lend them cash same as a mechanic loans a torque wrench to a co-worker who just broke his. They know there is more money to be made.

A relevant example is going against the math time to time when things are still good. Splitting 10s against a dealer 6 then a resplit driving your $10 bet to $40-50. A scarcity mindset you are never going to do this. An abundance mindset says you might lose this time to time when the dealer does not bust but the payout is so good you go for it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AZDuffman

In poker one of the first rules is "scared money cannot win." Same with the rest. To walk into the casino thinking you are betting your last $100 is just throwing it away. You will not make the math work for you.
link to original post

This seems to describe a high risk of ruin situation.

It may be a good play, just not suitable for your current bankroll.
link to original post

Maybe kinda sorta. But not exactly

Lets use a business example. Some managers are top-line drivers while others are bottom-line watchers. The bottom line watcher will very often do better short-term as you can always hack a few more costs out of a business. But they never grow things. They think the top-line is limited. Meanwhile, the top-line driver thinks there is always more business out there. So just a matter of finding it.

Somewhere in "Gambling Wizards" it discusses how gamblers go bust time to time but make their way back. And how other gamblers will lend them cash same as a mechanic loans a torque wrench to a co-worker who just broke his. They know there is more money to be made.

A relevant example is going against the math time to time when things are still good. Splitting 10s against a dealer 6 then a resplit driving your $10 bet to $40-50. A scarcity mindset you are never going to do this. An abundance mindset says you might lose this time to time when the dealer does not bust but the payout is so good you go for it.
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OK. I recognize there are some psychological (mindset) issues as well, which seems to be what you're driving at.

The urge to do the wrong thing because you feel you have to do something is powerful, and that's compounded by confusion over the wrong thing being the right thing in a subtly different circumstance.

I know that's a little abstract, and probably confused by my fondness for "poetry".

Quote: Dieter

OK. I recognize there are some psychological (mindset) issues as well, which seems to be what you're driving at.

The urge to do the wrong thing because you feel you have to do something is powerful, and that's compounded by confusion over the wrong thing being the right thing in a subtly different circumstance.

I know that's a little abstract, and probably confused by my fondness for "poetry".
link to original post

What do you mean urge to do the wrong thing because you have to do something?
are you talking about boredom?


as for an abundance mentality to win big and constantly, i'm thinking bankroll.
with enough bankroll, you're not playing scared.

the poker example has already been given here.
here's one about vulturing:
10play @ $5 denom Triple double bonus. $250 to play 5 coins.
That game has brutal variance.

if you're scared about losing the $250, you're going to skip over it.
you're not going to win big or constantly if you're not going to play a +ev game.

It may take years (and 5 figures) to overcome the variance but when you do, you will make your $ back and then some.
Constantly for this game i guess means every 1 in x thousand of times you play.
(x = # hands needed, on avg, to get special quads with kicker)
and years assuming you only have the opportunity to play in a +ev state once a day.

Did no-one here think to google a definition of 'Abundance mentality'?

One definition that I stumbled on was promoting being flamboyant and giving bigger tips, because, well, 'there's plenty to go around'. That's a great way to deplete your bankroll while trying to win consistently.

Quote: OnceDear

Did no-one here think to google a definition of 'Abundance mentality'?

One definition that I stumbled on was promoting being flamboyant and giving bigger tips, because, well, 'there's plenty to go around'.
link to original post

how does that help you to win big and constantly?

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: OnceDear

Did no-one here think to google a definition of 'Abundance mentality'?

One definition that I stumbled on was promoting being flamboyant and giving bigger tips, because, well, 'there's plenty to go around'.
link to original post

how does that help you to win big and constantly?
link to original post

The great thing is... No-one ever claimed it helped. Only that the lack of it hindered.

Quote: 100xOdds

What do you mean urge to do the wrong thing because you have to do something?
are you talking about boredom?
link to original post

There is a strong social pressure against inaction, "don't just sit there, do something." Seize the day; use your time; make the most of it; get up and go; I'll sleep when I'm dead; pick a platitude.

I'm sure many AP's have overcome it, and are perfectly content to just sit there.

Quote: OnceDear

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: OnceDear

Did no-one here think to google a definition of 'Abundance mentality'?

One definition that I stumbled on was promoting being flamboyant and giving bigger tips, because, well, 'there's plenty to go around'.
link to original post

how does that help you to win big and constantly?
link to original post

The great thing is... No-one ever claimed it helped. Only that the lack of it hindered.
link to original post

ahh.. my definition in relation to gambling would be:
Abundance mentality = bankroll

Here is my understanding of the abundance mentality:

You aren't going to hit the $40000 wedge on a 25 cent WoF. You have to play the $100 WoF. And to drop that much in the $100 WoF, $10000 has to not be that big a deal.

Yeah, no thanks. Winning big means having to accept losing big. I'm there for the fun, not for the heartbreak.