ChallengedMilly
ChallengedMilly
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Mission146
July 29th, 2021 at 9:16:39 AM permalink
Definition a lot of addict specialists use is when you feel a compulsion to do something that you would feel otherwise negative feelings if you weren't able to do that activity. What I would suggest is this. Go 1 entire month without betting a single dollar. If you can genuinely do that and not feel negatively affected by it, then you should then resume gambling. If you cannot go 1 month without gambling without feeling bad about it, the yes you're addicted and i'd spend some of that 6 figure income on a good therapist to explore why. Remember, any mental justification about "Why should I take a month off?!" is a sign of addiction as well.
billryan
billryan 
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Mission146
July 29th, 2021 at 9:35:15 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Well, that player I mention who has dumped a million in past two very short trips left Vegas and came back about ten days or maybe two weeks later, so quit for MORE than a week, but came right back to the exact same degenerate out of control losing as before. Plus it's not like seems to be able to afford that kind of loss. I mean no one wants or likes to lose but this player is acting like going to get offed for taking what might not belong to the player if doesn't win it back.



Really? How do you know he wasn't spending that time online, or hunting his local lottery vendor?
MDawg
MDawg
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Mission146
July 29th, 2021 at 9:40:29 AM permalink
As far as that player I've talked to the player again and Baccarat seems to be the player's thing. There is a set of people who actually view Baccarat as a form of income. I haven't seen many if any of them make money on it regularly so that baffles me why they view it as such.

As far as gambling in general, if a person sometimes win sometimes loses views it as entertainment and can afford the over all loss, I don't see a problem with it. But anyone who consistently loses even if can afford it I don't see the attraction seems like self destructive behavior to me.

I still think that the house edge isn't what gets people even on negative expectation games it is themselves - some players just get to the point of losing control and start dumping money every session, always playing until they lose. Maybe it happens after one losing session and they chase after that, lose again, and then start chasing forever but whatever the reason, something happens with some players that they start playing excessively to a consistent loss. I mean dumping your entire bankroll every trip cannot be explained by the house edge, and seriously, there are some players who do that very consistently.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
dawinnaatlozins
dawinnaatlozins
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Mission146
July 29th, 2021 at 10:48:33 AM permalink
your belief is much like mine, id hate to live in a world w/o chocolate and would suck to live in a world without dr pepper
as long as your not getting kicked out of your apartment or losing your house i say do what feels good =)
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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Mission146
July 29th, 2021 at 11:32:31 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Axel, you are an AP and appear to know many AP's.

In your opinion are many AP's addicted to gambling?

That is, even though they gamble for a living, might the listed criteria still fit many of them?

There there are so many levels of addictions/ compulsions/problem X, so you would have to define that.

What if one's addiction is a huge net positive to their life? for instance, someone is totally addicted to video games, but they are making millions of dollars doing it
along with being an overall positive thing in their life?

Are we talking many, as in more than the average American that gambles? That's really hard to say. You would think that it would have to be above average since they are gambling, but perhaps not, because to be an Advantage Player you have to have a certain mindset.

We would have to define who and exactly what an Advantage Player is. For the sake of this conversation, let's define it as someone who relies on AP as their main source of income.

If we take a look at the general definition and try to apply it to advantage players, we begin to see there are some problems that are unique to Advantage Players.

1) A person feels the need to gamble with an increasing amount of money in order to achieve the desired excitement. *(This would be a problem for sure.)

2) A person becomes angry, restless or irritable when someone tells them to cut back on their gambling, or to stop it altogether. *( Your friends and family know this is how you make a living so I dont really think you can apply it)

3) A person will have unsuccessfully tried to cut back or stop gambling on their own.*(Why would and AP want to stop or cut back?)

4) A person has frequent thoughts about gambling, including reliving past gambling adventures, planning their next gambling outing, and thinking of ways to get money to gamble with. *(It's what you do for a living, so of course, this stuff is happening)

5) A person will often gamble when they are feeling distressed. *(This is an issue and something I would consider a major sign that an AP has a problem)

6) After a person loses money, they return to try and “get even” *(referred to as “chasing” one’s losses) (This is a tricky one since advantage players are continually playing, however, they know if they are playing for the +EV or they are Hot-Sucker/steaming and chasing losses. I have to think that most AP's have done this at least a time or two)

7) A person will not hesitate to lie to hide their gambling activity. *( there is no reason for an AP to hide it)

8) A person will jeopardize or lose a significant relationship, job or educational/career opportunity because of gambling. *(Again, it what you for a living so I dont think it can apply)

9) A person will begin relying on others to help with money problems caused by their gambling habits *(It's time to get a real job)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do know very successfully AP's that basically have to be in action/always playing +EV, as in, they would decline x amount of money to not play for x amount of time. I guess that would be an addiction, but if it's a net positive to their life, what can you say?

Most AP's I have known personally will occasionally play -EV games while passing some time for entertainment, perhaps a small sports bet, dinking around with friends or family who are on town, playing a game they enjoy such as craps, etc. If you are playing a significant amount of _EV gambling, no doubt, you probably have a problem.

I also have known what I call degenerate AP's, guys that basically blow all their money playing bad stuff, or things that are way above their bankroll limit that might be slightly -EV, break-even or slightly positive.

I also believe other factors that play a big part are.
What kind of gambler you were before you got into AP?
What kind of AP are you into?
What's your overall knowledge about Advantage Play?

I would say, for the most part, when it comes to truly successful well-rounded Advantage Players, it's probably on par with whatever the average is.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Jul 29, 2021
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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Mission146Joeman
July 29th, 2021 at 11:57:34 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Would a drug dealer who makes money off drugs but is a daily user himself not be an addict? Just tossing that out there.

Would someone who DOES NOT make their living from gambling, but then spends all day across multiple forums making many long posts about their high-limit gambling/casinos not be an addict? Just tossing that out there.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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July 29th, 2021 at 12:53:59 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Would someone who DOES NOT make their living from gambling, but then spends all day across multiple forums making many long posts about their high-limit gambling/casinos not be an addict? Just tossing that out there.

Interesting question.
There are some, that might see this as a finely veiled insult.

** *** *** ****, **** **!
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 29th, 2021 at 1:03:24 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Interesting question.
There are some, that might see this as a finely veiled insult.

** *** *** ****, **** **!

And what he posted, in what was an obvious response to where MRV asked me a question was not as well?

I say do your job and suspend both of us based on martingale. if you are unwilling to do a martingale, I'm willing to gladly accept giving me double the time in red of whatever you give him.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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July 30th, 2021 at 7:14:03 AM permalink
Some interesting comments coming in about this thread. I'm not going to disclose anything about PM's, but this is my answer to the PM's and to AxelWolf's comment.

It's pretty clear that AxelWolf was alluding to a certain un-named member in one of his replies here. But, it was in the form of an open question. Earlier, MDawg had alluded to a hypothetical drug addicted drug dealer. Someone could have taken that as applying to him as some sort of insult by metaphor.

I'm reminded of a recent ruling of my own...

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/36179-casino-anti-money-laundering-and-compliance/43/#post814691
Which I later over-ruled myself...
...and was explained by TomG
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/36179-casino-anti-money-laundering-and-compliance/44/#post814722

So, Let's see if I can sort of refine the interpretation of veiled insults where the recipient is not named, but it is clearly directed at someone.....

Just don't do it!

Rule 1 is clear: NO PERSONAL INSULTS! Not overt ones, not veiled ones, not even ones aimed at whole communities, racial or sexual groupings where a member of that thread is clearly being singled out.

Of the posts in this thread, I believe that AxelWolf was quite clearly having a dig at MDawg. It was not subtle and he all but confirmed that it was retaliatory.

Of the earlier post by MDawg where he used the metaphor of a drug addict, that MIGHT have been meant as a sleight against AxelWolf. But it was subtle and could have been misread by AxelWolf, enough to inspire him to retaliate.

Now these members seem to want each-other suspended. I'm thinking both or neither. And in this instance, I'm going with 'neither'

No one picked up on my obfuscated comment yet. maybe work together on it.

** *** *** ****, **** **
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 30th, 2021 at 10:34:28 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Some interesting comments coming in about this thread. I'm not going to disclose anything about PM's, but this is my answer to the PM's and to AxelWolf's comment.

It's pretty clear that AxelWolf was alluding to a certain un-named member in one of his replies here. But, it was in the form of an open question. Earlier, MDawg had alluded to a hypothetical drug addicted drug dealer. Someone could have taken that as applying to him as some sort of insult by metaphor.

I'm reminded of a recent ruling of my own...

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/36179-casino-anti-money-laundering-and-compliance/43/#post814691
Which I later over-ruled myself...
...and was explained by TomG
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/36179-casino-anti-money-laundering-and-compliance/44/#post814722

So, Let's see if I can sort of refine the interpretation of veiled insults where the recipient is not named, but it is clearly directed at someone.....

Just don't do it!

Rule 1 is clear: NO PERSONAL INSULTS! Not overt ones, not veiled ones, not even ones aimed at whole communities, racial or sexual groupings where a member of that thread is clearly being singled out.

Of the posts in this thread, I believe that AxelWolf was quite clearly having a dig at MDawg. It was not subtle and he all but confirmed that it was retaliatory.

Of the earlier post by MDawg where he used the metaphor of a drug addict, that MIGHT have been meant as a sleight against AxelWolf. But it was subtle and could have been misread by AxelWolf, enough to inspire him to retaliate.

Now these members seem to want each-other suspended. I'm thinking both or neither. And in this instance, I'm going with 'neither'

No one picked up on my obfuscated comment yet. maybe work together on it.

** *** *** ****, **** **

It's simple, I think we should both be suspended. Since mine was more obvious, I'll take 20 times the amount of my last time out, and you can just give him 2 times his last suspension.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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