Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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August 6th, 2019 at 6:19:52 PM permalink
Title may be misleading, and I am not sure if this belongs here or slots, but with that caveat out of the way:

I try to avoid slots, except for free play and some occasional machines that I genuinely enjoy (of course I am aware slots are the best way to quickly lose your bankroll). But, today I had an interesting discussion with somebody over slot strategy. The basic premise being if you had a portion of your bankroll or a preset freeplay (lets say 100 dollars to keep it simple) that you wanted to devote to slot play, what would be the best way to play it.

My play style for slots always is, single real, and the largest denomination they have for my set amount, so for 100 dollars of slot play I would play one spin on a single line 100 machine. Or if the highest available was 10, I would play 10 spins at a single reel machine etc.... Basically the fewest large bets I can make....

His argument to this was two fold, the first part was not really interesting and basically was "well the more spins you play the more chance you have of winning the top jackpot", true in a technical sense, but statistically irrelevant 10 spins vs 100 spins. However, the second part of his argument was, casinos like slot players who play for periods of time, making a single bet and having a card in a machine won't generate much comp points, whereas playing for an extended period of time and circulating the 100 dollars can lead to far greater comps. And, this also is true, but would it matter enough? I guess I am asking is my strategy for slot play of (generally making a single large bet or several large bets) still better than extended play factoring in the potential for more rewards for sitting at a machine and recirculating the money?

I personally am pretty set on making as few slot bets as possible, so I doubt my style will change regardless of information, but I am more so curious?
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
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August 6th, 2019 at 9:37:46 PM permalink
Comps are based on money you have already lost and a profile that suggests a continuing steady stream of loss in the near future. Important elements in that profile are average bet and time on machine. Free play does not get you future comps. You are not losing your money. Winning does not generate comps: you have the casino’s money and they won’t give you more for that.

There is a point where further time on machines for a day no longer enhances your profile. Ask about that where you play. That point will probably be about four hours.

Minimum betting is a red flag. You are returning little to the casino for the resources you are consuming, such as free drinks and a seat at a machine.

Find a balance that works for you playing more than minimums for extended time, but not too much time. The idea is to enjoy losing your money and getting a little something back in the way of comps.

Casinos are very good (they have to be) at detecting when they are being gamed. If they think you are doing so, there will be no comps 4U!
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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August 7th, 2019 at 2:58:54 AM permalink
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Comps are based on money you have already lost and a profile that suggests a continuing steady stream of loss in the near future. Important elements in that profile are average bet and time on machine. Free play does not get you future comps. You are not losing your money. Winning does not generate comps: you have the casino’s money and they won’t give you more for that.

There is a point where further time on machines for a day no longer enhances your profile. Ask about that where you play. That point will probably be about four hours.

Minimum betting is a red flag. You are returning little to the casino for the resources you are consuming, such as free drinks and a seat at a machine.

Find a balance that works for you playing more than minimums for extended time, but not too much time. The idea is to enjoy losing your money and getting a little something back in the way of comps.

Casinos are very good (they have to be) at detecting when they are being gamed. If they think you are doing so, there will be no comps 4U!



BCS is correct about freeplay although there are a few casinos that allow comps to accrue on freeplay those are few and far between

One way to tell is if some aspect is disabled. Using freeplay and no points or no shopping dollars accrue then freeplay is not considered in your play. If they do accrue they may or may not count towards your overall play.

As for time, on slots I dont know any casinos that use time except in very low profile way. They are concerned with coin-in for your ratings.

Some may reward large losses. Winning IS rewarded! Sometimes it affects the size of your offers but not necessarily. If they turn your comps off though, winning will be given as a BS reason why (if you have lost they will give you some other BS reason)

I disagree that minimum betting is some type of red flag. That would mean 90% of the casino population is being red-flagged. I almost always see minimum bettors everywhere I play. Red-flagged for what? Like I said they dont use time anyway at slots.

Sometimes casinos are very good at telling when they are being gamed. Sometimes they arent or I would not be making my living off them (or perhaps I am just too good for them and thats why I am so feared.)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
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August 7th, 2019 at 9:30:55 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

... I disagree that minimum betting is some type of red flag. That would mean 90% of the casino population is being red-flagged. I almost always see minimum bettors everywhere I play. Red-flagged for what? Like I said they dont use time anyway at slots. ...

Fair enough, because what I stated lacked qualification I left out. We are in agreement that the automated evaluation of play and issuing of comps doesn’t discriminate based on betting size nor time on machine. However, when appealing to a host for consideration beyond that automation I believe those points are a factor. At least Mrs. Chips has been told so many times over several years where she plays.

I usually slow play Mrs. Chips free play on a bar slot. I almost always cash out 90%+ of the value. And get good scotch since I’m with her and she has the card for something better than well drinks. I turn the ticket over to Mrs. Chips to lose, but it then counts as a loss and generates comps.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
KevinAA
KevinAA
Joined: Jul 6, 2017
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August 28th, 2019 at 10:35:07 PM permalink
Making one spin at $100 is a bad idea. You stand a good chance of getting a W-2g. It's also over way too fast.

I suggest betting 1/40th of your bankroll (i.e. 40 spins). That seems to be a good compromise between making too few spins (over too fast and few chances to win a lot) and making too many spins (lots of chances to win not very much).
DRich
DRich
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August 29th, 2019 at 7:24:00 AM permalink
Quote: KevinAA

Making one spin at $100 is a bad idea. You stand a good chance of getting a W-2g. It's also over way too fast.



For people that report all of their income that will not be an issue.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
MaxPen
MaxPen
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August 29th, 2019 at 11:06:11 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

For people that report all of their income that will not be an issue.



Not necessarily. People who don't meet the 24k married standard deduction may incur a tax due when they actually had a loss on overall play. Due to being unable to itemize gambling activity. It's probably time to raise the W2-g threshold of get rid of it entirely.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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August 29th, 2019 at 11:08:57 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Not necessarily. People who don't meet the 24k married standard deduction may incur a tax due when they actually had a loss on overall play. Due to being unable to itemize gambling activity. It's probably time to raise the W2-g threshold of get rid of it entirely.



I agree, 1200 seems low, especially when you can win far higher on table games with no reporting.
DRich
DRich
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August 29th, 2019 at 11:28:13 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Not necessarily. People who don't meet the 24k married standard deduction may incur a tax due when they actually had a loss on overall play. Due to being unable to itemize gambling activity. It's probably time to raise the W2-g threshold of get rid of it entirely.



How would playing five spins of $20 be different assuming you report all wins? I realize most people don't report all wins, but assuming they do.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
MaxPen
MaxPen
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August 29th, 2019 at 1:11:23 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

How would playing five spins of $20 be different assuming you report all wins? I realize most people don't report all wins, but assuming they do.



Not really sure what point you're trying to make. I'm just trying to make the point that with new changes in tax laws w-2g's have become a big concern for a majority of taxpayers.
People getting them and are unable to deduct any losing action against them and easily wind up negative and still pay taxes on a win that was not net positive to the session or year for that matter.

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