Gandler
Gandler
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August 6th, 2019 at 6:19:52 PM permalink
Title may be misleading, and I am not sure if this belongs here or slots, but with that caveat out of the way:

I try to avoid slots, except for free play and some occasional machines that I genuinely enjoy (of course I am aware slots are the best way to quickly lose your bankroll). But, today I had an interesting discussion with somebody over slot strategy. The basic premise being if you had a portion of your bankroll or a preset freeplay (lets say 100 dollars to keep it simple) that you wanted to devote to slot play, what would be the best way to play it.

My play style for slots always is, single real, and the largest denomination they have for my set amount, so for 100 dollars of slot play I would play one spin on a single line 100 machine. Or if the highest available was 10, I would play 10 spins at a single reel machine etc.... Basically the fewest large bets I can make....

His argument to this was two fold, the first part was not really interesting and basically was "well the more spins you play the more chance you have of winning the top jackpot", true in a technical sense, but statistically irrelevant 10 spins vs 100 spins. However, the second part of his argument was, casinos like slot players who play for periods of time, making a single bet and having a card in a machine won't generate much comp points, whereas playing for an extended period of time and circulating the 100 dollars can lead to far greater comps. And, this also is true, but would it matter enough? I guess I am asking is my strategy for slot play of (generally making a single large bet or several large bets) still better than extended play factoring in the potential for more rewards for sitting at a machine and recirculating the money?

I personally am pretty set on making as few slot bets as possible, so I doubt my style will change regardless of information, but I am more so curious?
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
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August 6th, 2019 at 9:37:46 PM permalink
Comps are based on money you have already lost and a profile that suggests a continuing steady stream of loss in the near future. Important elements in that profile are average bet and time on machine. Free play does not get you future comps. You are not losing your money. Winning does not generate comps: you have the casino’s money and they won’t give you more for that.

There is a point where further time on machines for a day no longer enhances your profile. Ask about that where you play. That point will probably be about four hours.

Minimum betting is a red flag. You are returning little to the casino for the resources you are consuming, such as free drinks and a seat at a machine.

Find a balance that works for you playing more than minimums for extended time, but not too much time. The idea is to enjoy losing your money and getting a little something back in the way of comps.

Casinos are very good (they have to be) at detecting when they are being gamed. If they think you are doing so, there will be no comps 4U!
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
darkoz
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August 7th, 2019 at 2:58:54 AM permalink
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Comps are based on money you have already lost and a profile that suggests a continuing steady stream of loss in the near future. Important elements in that profile are average bet and time on machine. Free play does not get you future comps. You are not losing your money. Winning does not generate comps: you have the casino’s money and they won’t give you more for that.

There is a point where further time on machines for a day no longer enhances your profile. Ask about that where you play. That point will probably be about four hours.

Minimum betting is a red flag. You are returning little to the casino for the resources you are consuming, such as free drinks and a seat at a machine.

Find a balance that works for you playing more than minimums for extended time, but not too much time. The idea is to enjoy losing your money and getting a little something back in the way of comps.

Casinos are very good (they have to be) at detecting when they are being gamed. If they think you are doing so, there will be no comps 4U!



BCS is correct about freeplay although there are a few casinos that allow comps to accrue on freeplay those are few and far between

One way to tell is if some aspect is disabled. Using freeplay and no points or no shopping dollars accrue then freeplay is not considered in your play. If they do accrue they may or may not count towards your overall play.

As for time, on slots I dont know any casinos that use time except in very low profile way. They are concerned with coin-in for your ratings.

Some may reward large losses. Winning IS rewarded! Sometimes it affects the size of your offers but not necessarily. If they turn your comps off though, winning will be given as a BS reason why (if you have lost they will give you some other BS reason)

I disagree that minimum betting is some type of red flag. That would mean 90% of the casino population is being red-flagged. I almost always see minimum bettors everywhere I play. Red-flagged for what? Like I said they dont use time anyway at slots.

Sometimes casinos are very good at telling when they are being gamed. Sometimes they arent or I would not be making my living off them (or perhaps I am just too good for them and thats why I am so feared.)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
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August 7th, 2019 at 9:30:55 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

... I disagree that minimum betting is some type of red flag. That would mean 90% of the casino population is being red-flagged. I almost always see minimum bettors everywhere I play. Red-flagged for what? Like I said they dont use time anyway at slots. ...

Fair enough, because what I stated lacked qualification I left out. We are in agreement that the automated evaluation of play and issuing of comps doesn’t discriminate based on betting size nor time on machine. However, when appealing to a host for consideration beyond that automation I believe those points are a factor. At least Mrs. Chips has been told so many times over several years where she plays.

I usually slow play Mrs. Chips free play on a bar slot. I almost always cash out 90%+ of the value. And get good scotch since I’m with her and she has the card for something better than well drinks. I turn the ticket over to Mrs. Chips to lose, but it then counts as a loss and generates comps.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
KevinAA
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August 28th, 2019 at 10:35:07 PM permalink
Making one spin at $100 is a bad idea. You stand a good chance of getting a W-2g. It's also over way too fast.

I suggest betting 1/40th of your bankroll (i.e. 40 spins). That seems to be a good compromise between making too few spins (over too fast and few chances to win a lot) and making too many spins (lots of chances to win not very much).
DRich
DRich
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August 29th, 2019 at 7:24:00 AM permalink
Quote: KevinAA

Making one spin at $100 is a bad idea. You stand a good chance of getting a W-2g. It's also over way too fast.



For people that report all of their income that will not be an issue.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MaxPen
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August 29th, 2019 at 11:06:11 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

For people that report all of their income that will not be an issue.



Not necessarily. People who don't meet the 24k married standard deduction may incur a tax due when they actually had a loss on overall play. Due to being unable to itemize gambling activity. It's probably time to raise the W2-g threshold of get rid of it entirely.
Gandler
Gandler
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August 29th, 2019 at 11:08:57 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Not necessarily. People who don't meet the 24k married standard deduction may incur a tax due when they actually had a loss on overall play. Due to being unable to itemize gambling activity. It's probably time to raise the W2-g threshold of get rid of it entirely.



I agree, 1200 seems low, especially when you can win far higher on table games with no reporting.
DRich
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August 29th, 2019 at 11:28:13 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Not necessarily. People who don't meet the 24k married standard deduction may incur a tax due when they actually had a loss on overall play. Due to being unable to itemize gambling activity. It's probably time to raise the W2-g threshold of get rid of it entirely.



How would playing five spins of $20 be different assuming you report all wins? I realize most people don't report all wins, but assuming they do.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MaxPen
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August 29th, 2019 at 1:11:23 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

How would playing five spins of $20 be different assuming you report all wins? I realize most people don't report all wins, but assuming they do.



Not really sure what point you're trying to make. I'm just trying to make the point that with new changes in tax laws w-2g's have become a big concern for a majority of taxpayers.
People getting them and are unable to deduct any losing action against them and easily wind up negative and still pay taxes on a win that was not net positive to the session or year for that matter.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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August 29th, 2019 at 2:47:58 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. I'm just trying to make the point that with new changes in tax laws w-2g's have become a big concern for a majority of taxpayers.
People getting them and are unable to deduct any losing action against them and easily wind up negative and still pay taxes on a win that was not net positive to the session or year for that matter.



A majority of taxpayers do not gamble. A majority of gamblers play at stakes so low that there's almost no chance of generating a W-2g. But, getting rid of them is a great idea. Or raising the limit to a more reasonable number. there's an open proposal to make that raise, isn't there? to $5k?

I'm still confused what Turbo Tax did with my taxes. It netted my losses against my w-2gs, then still suggested the standard deduction and didn't add back the gambling net. I guess that means that their read is that gambling activity can be netted before other deductions are applied. That'd make sense...that's just not how everyone (including me) thinks this is supposed to work.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
yogitagodara
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September 30th, 2019 at 12:54:04 AM permalink
I know Slot games are the prior attraction of players in the Gambling Industry.Their are certain facts you need to consider while going for online slots -
1. Winning slots have no strategy - its just pure luck. In slot Game, you cant predict the numbers because of the (RNG - Random Number Generator). Getting fooled by a false promise of fake strategy is really bad.
2. Slots have different names - Slots are referred with different names in different countries. Brits call it fruit machines, whereas Aussies call it fruit machines.
3. Slots is a fair game - The RNG system which is being used in Slot games works on generating the codes randomly. This ensures that their is no fraud and the game is played fairly.
4. Enhance the winning chance - Pick the right casino, and try to understand when to withdraw and keep your winning chance higher.

You can consider these above mentioned factors before making a choice, or can follow your own unique style. The choice is definitely yours. I just mentioned the basic information a slot player can check on.
Jessica
DRich
DRich
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September 30th, 2019 at 10:07:20 AM permalink
Quote: yogitagodara

I know Slot games are the prior attraction of players in the Gambling Industry.Their are certain facts you need to consider while going for online slots -
1. Winning slots have no strategy - its just pure luck. In slot Game, you cant predict the numbers because of the (RNG - Random Number Generator). Getting fooled by a false promise of fake strategy is really bad.
2. Slots have different names - Slots are referred with different names in different countries. Brits call it fruit machines, whereas Aussies call it fruit machines.
3. Slots is a fair game - The RNG system which is being used in Slot games works on generating the codes randomly. This ensures that their is no fraud and the game is played fairly.
4. Enhance the winning chance - Pick the right casino, and try to understand when to withdraw and keep your winning chance higher.

You can consider these above mentioned factors before making a choice, or can follow your own unique style. The choice is definitely yours. I just mentioned the basic information a slot player can check on.



Ausies call them Pokies.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
heatmap
heatmap
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September 30th, 2019 at 4:51:50 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Ausies call them Pokies.



What about compensated slots? aka vlt

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/for-the-public/Safer-gambling/Consumer-guides/Machines-Fruit-machines-FOBTs/Gaming-machine-payouts-RTP.aspx

Gaming machine payouts: return-to-player
Gaming machines, also called fruit machines, slots machines or FOBTs, are required to clearly display the percentage return-to-player figure (% RTP), or the odds of winning a prize.

Gaming machines offer different prize amounts depending on their category.

It is important to realise however, that the % RTP is an average achieved over a significant number of game plays and not each time the gaming machine is played.

Average % RTP is generally measured over 10,000 or 100,000 games or greater for compensated and random machines respectively, dependent upon their category.

For example, if a gaming machine displays an 85% RTP, you should not expect to win an average of 85 pence for every £1 you stake during a playing session.

There is no statutory minimum percentage payout for a gaming machine.

Being clear to players
Gaming machines must make information available about their category, % RTP and whether they are compensated or random.


Compensated machines
Compensated machines vary the chance of winning a prize as a result of the outcome from previous play. Where such a machine is below its target %RTP it may become more generous dependent upon design and vice versa, though the prize distribution is still determined by chance.


Random machines
Random machines rely purely on statistical probabilities to achieve their target percentage return to player. The odds of achieving a win remain constant, and are not affected by previous wins or losses.
DRich
DRich
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October 1st, 2019 at 8:46:39 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

What about compensated slots? aka vlt



I am very familiar with the ones used in the U.K. Didn't they just pass legislation maximizing the wager at around 2 pounds?
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
valku13
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December 7th, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM permalink
I agree, as far as I know, slots are based on the generation of random outcomes. But this can be used for building the strategy.
It seems to me that the most advantageous option here is to divide the game budget into the maximum possible number of games with low bets.
However, I also (as author) don`t like slots, since the possibility of building a strategy here is very limited due to the random mechanism of the game.
DRich
DRich
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December 7th, 2019 at 9:46:23 AM permalink
Quote: valku13

I agree, as far as I know, slots are based on the generation of random outcomes. But this can be used for building the strategy.
It seems to me that the most advantageous option here is to divide the game budget into the maximum possible number of games with low bets.
However, I also (as author) don`t like slots, since the possibility of building a strategy here is very limited due to the random mechanism of the game.



Am I the only one that doesn't understand this post at all?
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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