Quote:Lucca3927Hi. Does the wizard still have an outstanding offer for a long term mathematical system that can beat the house? I have one that works on paper although it is not practical and the casinos would probably not allow it.

It does not work on paper. You need new paper. But seriously, you probably either misinterpretted the rules of the challenge or miscalculated. Lay out your system and I will tell you which one. It won't be difficult.

If you represent yourself, and bet, like a big enough fish you can negotiate a discount with the casino based on your losses. If you get, say a 10% rebate then after a multiple of 36 rolls, as a team you've lost one unit. If you then apply your discount on losses then that loss is overridden by the discount and you have a higher gross amount then what you started with.

Now, you need to be a high roller with another high roller (or a few smaller friends/bettors) to pull this stunt off and the casinos will catch on pretty quick and toss you (it seems to obvious not to have been tried) but it is sound math.

Of course, without a buddy and no discount on losses the math behind the rules will eventually hunt you down and make the kill (just so you know that I do understand the underlying math of the game).

You are not even close to the first person to think of this and you won't be the last. It can be done playing other games as well. Someone already tried this angle here.Quote:Lucca3927Ok. You and a buddy go to a casino and play craps, offsetting each other. Now, for the sake of argument, let's say that you can remove the variance without enough rolls because, of course, you can't stand there and play 1 million of them.

If you represent yourself, and bet, like a big enough fish you can negotiate a discount with the casino based on your losses. If you get, say a 10% rebate then after a multiple of 36 rolls, as a team you've lost one unit. If you then apply your discount on losses then that loss is overridden by the discount and you have a higher gross amount then what you started with.

Now, you need to be a high roller with another high roller (or a few smaller friends/bettors) to pull this stunt off and the casinos will catch on pretty quick and toss you (it seems to obvious not to have been tried) but it is sound math.

Of course, without a buddy and no discount on losses the math behind the rules will eventually hunt you down and make the kill (just so you know that I do understand the underlying math of the game).

The system has to beat the GAME itself NOT THE CASINO.

Quote:Lucca3927Ok. You and a buddy go to a casino and play craps, offsetting each other. Now, for the sake of argument, let's say that you can remove the variance without enough rolls because, of course, you can't stand there and play 1 million of them.

If you represent yourself, and bet, like a big enough fish you can negotiate a discount with the casino based on your losses. If you get, say a 10% rebate then after a multiple of 36 rolls, as a team you've lost one unit. If you then apply your discount on losses then that loss is overridden by the discount and you have a higher gross amount then what you started with.

Now, you need to be a high roller with another high roller (or a few smaller friends/bettors) to pull this stunt off and the casinos will catch on pretty quick and toss you (it seems to obvious not to have been tried) but it is sound math.

Of course, without a buddy and no discount on losses the math behind the rules will eventually hunt you down and make the kill (just so you know that I do understand the underlying math of the game).

The challenge does not include comps or loss rebates. The Wiz would not deny the possibility of those promotions allowing a positive expectation.

Quote:WizardI don't totally rule it out but I don't want to go back and forth about the rules for 100 messages and then you bail when it is time to put up the challenge money.

Are you saying the $10k challenge does allow for casino loss rebates to be part of the persons “system”?

I thought that guy don Johnson had already showed that blackjack can be beat when rebates are involved

Quote:WizardI don't totally rule it out but I don't want to go back and forth about the rules for 100 messages and then you bail when it is time to put up the challenge money.

If it includes rebates and promos then both i and several people on here have probably won the challenge already