Quote:Lucca3927Hi. Does the wizard still have an outstanding offer for a long term mathematical system that can beat the house? I have one that works on paper although it is not practical and the casinos would probably not allow it.

It does not work on paper. You need new paper. But seriously, you probably either misinterpretted the rules of the challenge or miscalculated. Lay out your system and I will tell you which one. It won't be difficult.

If you represent yourself, and bet, like a big enough fish you can negotiate a discount with the casino based on your losses. If you get, say a 10% rebate then after a multiple of 36 rolls, as a team you've lost one unit. If you then apply your discount on losses then that loss is overridden by the discount and you have a higher gross amount then what you started with.

Now, you need to be a high roller with another high roller (or a few smaller friends/bettors) to pull this stunt off and the casinos will catch on pretty quick and toss you (it seems to obvious not to have been tried) but it is sound math.

Of course, without a buddy and no discount on losses the math behind the rules will eventually hunt you down and make the kill (just so you know that I do understand the underlying math of the game).

You are not even close to the first person to think of this and you won't be the last. It can be done playing other games as well. Someone already tried this angle here.Quote:Lucca3927Ok. You and a buddy go to a casino and play craps, offsetting each other. Now, for the sake of argument, let's say that you can remove the variance without enough rolls because, of course, you can't stand there and play 1 million of them.

If you represent yourself, and bet, like a big enough fish you can negotiate a discount with the casino based on your losses. If you get, say a 10% rebate then after a multiple of 36 rolls, as a team you've lost one unit. If you then apply your discount on losses then that loss is overridden by the discount and you have a higher gross amount then what you started with.

Now, you need to be a high roller with another high roller (or a few smaller friends/bettors) to pull this stunt off and the casinos will catch on pretty quick and toss you (it seems to obvious not to have been tried) but it is sound math.

Of course, without a buddy and no discount on losses the math behind the rules will eventually hunt you down and make the kill (just so you know that I do understand the underlying math of the game).

The system has to beat the GAME itself NOT THE CASINO.

Quote:Lucca3927Ok. You and a buddy go to a casino and play craps, offsetting each other. Now, for the sake of argument, let's say that you can remove the variance without enough rolls because, of course, you can't stand there and play 1 million of them.

If you represent yourself, and bet, like a big enough fish you can negotiate a discount with the casino based on your losses. If you get, say a 10% rebate then after a multiple of 36 rolls, as a team you've lost one unit. If you then apply your discount on losses then that loss is overridden by the discount and you have a higher gross amount then what you started with.

Now, you need to be a high roller with another high roller (or a few smaller friends/bettors) to pull this stunt off and the casinos will catch on pretty quick and toss you (it seems to obvious not to have been tried) but it is sound math.

Of course, without a buddy and no discount on losses the math behind the rules will eventually hunt you down and make the kill (just so you know that I do understand the underlying math of the game).

The challenge does not include comps or loss rebates. The Wiz would not deny the possibility of those promotions allowing a positive expectation.

Quote:WizardI don't totally rule it out but I don't want to go back and forth about the rules for 100 messages and then you bail when it is time to put up the challenge money.

Are you saying the $10k challenge does allow for casino loss rebates to be part of the persons “system”?

I thought that guy don Johnson had already showed that blackjack can be beat when rebates are involved

Quote:WizardI don't totally rule it out but I don't want to go back and forth about the rules for 100 messages and then you bail when it is time to put up the challenge money.

If it includes rebates and promos then both i and several people on here have probably won the challenge already

For 10% betting on both sides?Quote:darkozIf it includes rebates and promos then both i and several people on here have probably won the challenge already

I have no doubt The Wizzard knows damn well a loss rebate can have a positive EV.

Quote:AxelWolfFor 10% betting on both sides?

I have no doubt The Wizzard knows damn well a loss rebate can have a positive EV.

I have no doubt also

But his comment was curious

Perhaps he didnt read the post with the actual description of the system

I agree, I would be surprised if he didn't read the post carefully, especially when it comes to his challenge/offer involving lots of money.Quote:darkoz

But his comment was curious

Perhaps it has something to do the number of units the OP is claiming?

Quote:AxelWolfI agree, I would be surprised if he didn't read the post carefully, especially when it comes to his challenge/offer involving lots of money.

Perhaps it has something to do the number of units the OP is claiming?

The more i think about it the more i suspect he didnt see the second post the challenger made

If u post an answer your response can leap you forward in the thread. Its something that annoys me to no end as i suddenly realize i missed two pages

The key thing is to win 40 rolls in a row while avoiding the twelve (Not necessarily betting one roll after the other)

You can not bet both sides of the PL/DP or C/DC on the same machine any more but two people can play this on those new bubble craps machines.

The dice setters use specific rolls at the tables to avoid a couple sevens from being made in the their throw. Maybe if they use a dice set to avoid rolling the TWELVE CRAP, this can be so do'able.

Question? Is it easier to roll a TWELVE using 2 DICE or is it easier to roll ANY TRIPLE on 3 DICE? Or what are the odds of being able to clock a wheel at a SINGLE 0 ROULETTE machine playing RED or BLACK?

What about betting with MATCH PLAY COUPONS Betting both sides?

Now the million dollar question "How does the taxes work on winning in the USA? Here in Canada you win 100% you keep 100% no taxes.

Quote:michael99000Are you saying the $10k challenge does allow for casino loss rebates to be part of the persons “system”?

No.

Quote:AxelWolfI have no doubt The Wizzard knows damn well a loss rebate can have a positive EV.

Of course. My challenge can involve only negative EV bets.

Quote:michael99000Are you saying the $10k challenge does allow for casino loss rebates to be part of the persons “system”?

None of the people who have offered up such challenges here would include a loss rebate. Quite the contrary, the Wiz and others have repeatedly shown that using a loss rebate can make many games that are inherently -EV into +EV opportunities. They even have given methods to bet which will maximize the +EV.

Quote:michael99000Are you saying the $10k challenge does allow for casino loss rebates to be part of the persons “system”?

None of the people who have offered up such challenges here would include a loss rebate. Quite the contrary, the Wiz and others have repeatedly shown that using a loss rebate can make many games that are inherently -EV into +EV opportunities. They even have given methods to bet which will maximize the +EV.

Quote:michael99000

None of the people who have offered up such challenges here would include a loss rebate. Quite the contrary, the Wiz and others have repeatedly shown that using a loss rebate can make many games that are inherently -EV into +EV opportunities. They even have given methods to bet which will maximize the +EV.