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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

UX is probably the easiest AP play that civilians figure out. It's painstakingly obvious. Must hit bys are probably a close second. But those being at the proper point to play are rarer. It's been years since I've had an opportunity on one. Ploppies play them way to low and just keep going for more money and never leave them at a high enough point.

That's why I always say that there is so much that varies when it comes to APing just the machine, without respect to promotions, mail or any other factors. I get opportunities on must-hits almost constantly, but there are a ton of them at one casino I go to especially and I also play good opportunities on anything that comes up, so including $40 or $50 Minors. I don't know if you look at Minors or not.

I agree with everything else you said, just wanted to submit that the Must-Hits depend A TON on where you are playing.

I guess the only thing that I kind of disagree with would be calling Must-Hits, "Easy." They're certainly not as difficult as figuring a non-obvious open-ended Progressive, but I wouldn't call them, 'Easy,' simply because it is so common for them to be played too early.

Quote: Mission146

That's why I always say that there is so much that varies when it comes to APing just the machine, without respect to promotions, mail or any other factors. I get opportunities on must-hits almost constantly, but there are a ton of them at one casino I go to especially and I also play good opportunities on anything that comes up, so including $40 or $50 Minors. I don't know if you look at Minors or not.

I agree with everything else you said, just wanted to submit that the Must-Hits depend A TON on where you are playing.

I guess the only thing that I kind of disagree with would be calling Must-Hits, "Easy." They're certainly not as difficult as figuring a non-obvious open-ended Progressive, but I wouldn't call them, 'Easy,' simply because it is so common for them to be played too early.

I look at both progressives. The problem, like I said, is that the civilians get on them way too low, say at $456.xx/$500.00 or $41.xx/$50.00 and never leave.

And I meant easy in the sense that any knucklehead can just wait until it's about to hit and then only play at that point.

If you want a ton of these progressives, hit up Ameristar Council Bluffs.

Speaking of UX, I like $120 hits while only betting one quarter per hand. 😁

Okay, I misunderstood what you meant by, 'Easy,' sorry about that.

I don't know what the difference is between, 'Civilians,' at one place vs. another, but I agree people who jump on too low are out there, but stipulate it varies A TON from casino to casino.

For instance, if you look at the three casinos I hit the most frequently, there are two that I almost never find a playable must-hit (though one is worse than the other) and one where I find a playable Minor of some sort almost every time I am there. The occasional Major, too.

What is it about the casinos that people should jump on too early and stay on for Minors at a couple of them while they seem completely oblivious to REALLY strong Minors at another? I have no idea. The best example is just a couple of weeks ago I found a Minor ($40) on Antony & Cleopatra at $39.42 that only has a $1.50 meter move. Can you figure that? $87 coin-in and it's a lock! Even if you figure you have to push it all the way and the base return is 70% (neither of those are correct assumptions, obviously) your EV on the thing would still be $13.90. That's 174 spins (again, assuming you push it all the way) so you're going to be looking at, what, maybe fifteen minutes? That's a $55.60/hour play, straight up, not even considering anything else.

While that may be uncommon, it's nothing to see them over $38. At $38, with the Meter Move, that's $300 coin-in for the lock. You figure the halfway point is $150, so at 80% return (too low of an assumption) you're going to pop it at $39, lose $30 of that and make $9. That's an expected 300 spins, so you're still at over $20 an hour in expectation.

I probably see such a play one out of two stops on those four specific machines at the place in question.

I would call it competition (they know what they are doing) and wannabe competition (play too early), but the amount of either/both types of competition seriously varies from place to place.

I might check out Council Bluffs sometime, but there are a ton of those types of games at two of the casinos I visit most frequently with not so many at the third. Again, only one of them routinely has any available plays.

That's a nice hit on the UX! Always fun to get one of those, especially when only holding a pair of them.

Quote: Tree

Have you met APs of every other race?

Of EVERY other race, NO. ( I'm not counting poker players.)

A few Asians.

Nowadays there are lots of weekend warriors, vultures, part time card counters etc, so I'm sure there are plenty non-whites. Even though there are more AP's nowadays you don't see and get to know them as much due to the nature of the plays now. So they are probably out there, I'm just not seeing them.

I was mainly talking about guys who play different aspects of AP full time, guys that have been around for a while.

If I had a list of people who I know their first and last names or people I saw around frequently, at least 85% would be white males. When I started there were very few people under the age of 28 that I knew of, I was about 22, I didn't know anyone as young as I was.

I'm not surprised you've only met a few asians... I've ran in to a bunch HC'ing, and more than one "team." Seems they're playing to their strengths of being able to be large sums of money with no one caring (rather than promotions or smaller edges in counting, etc).

Quote: Romes

I'm not surprised you've only met a few asians... I've ran in to a bunch HC'ing, and more than one "team." Seems they're playing to their strengths of being able to be large sums of money with no one caring (rather than promotions or smaller edges in counting, etc).

I've yet to come across any Asians doing that. Arabs, like the ones busted at Hollywood Joliet, yes (I know those 2), but no Asians yet.

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Quote: muzammil

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Quote: BlackjackGuy123

should do blackjack card counting team instead more profitable

Sure, because finding fifteen or so honest players is a piece of cake.
This is a great story about putting together a team of strangers
/book/show/12374496-the-law-of-large-numbers

I can't agree, sorry.

Quote: OddsTablet

Quote: billryan

Quote: BlackjackGuy123

should do blackjack card counting team instead more profitable

Sure, because finding fifteen or so honest players is a piece of cake.
This is a great story about putting together a team of strangers
/book/show/12374496-the-law-of-large-numbers

I can't agree, sorry.
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