Watching someone do Martingale to oblivion
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25 members have voted
July 18th, 2014 at 2:57:03 AM
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but in the middle of the night, playing online live dealer Blackjack, I watched intently as a player repeatedly played Martingale (approximately). Min bet table at £5, he frequently found himself betting £320 or more. I watched and kept track of his progress (while busily back counting :) ). It was pitiful. I watched as he staked £500 a few times and lost, and he seemed to occasionally chicken out and drop to £100. When he eventually won a hand at £1000, clawing back some losses, I knew he would be there a while. He lasted about an hour before apparently busting out his bankroll for the night.
£1000 seemed the max he dared to stake on a game, even when ££££ behind. I watched as he found himself having to split 8s against 10 with £500 down. Slaughtered. Next hand, slaughtered for another grand.... and again. Then he seemed to hesitate and then play and lose his last £300 before leaving. By my reckoning he was about 5k down on the £5 min bet table when he left. Maybe it was pin-money to him: Maybe it was the remainder of his fortune. Either way...... Why in the name of all that is holy did he not play anything close to Basic Strategy? Splitting 10s against 10 Standing on 14 or more against anything. He was making my brain hurt and my yelling at the screen woke the wife up. I was even inclined to comment in live chat, but that would seem to be impertinent.
Should we pity those who believe in Martingale enough to wager that way?
£1000 seemed the max he dared to stake on a game, even when ££££ behind. I watched as he found himself having to split 8s against 10 with £500 down. Slaughtered. Next hand, slaughtered for another grand.... and again. Then he seemed to hesitate and then play and lose his last £300 before leaving. By my reckoning he was about 5k down on the £5 min bet table when he left. Maybe it was pin-money to him: Maybe it was the remainder of his fortune. Either way...... Why in the name of all that is holy did he not play anything close to Basic Strategy? Splitting 10s against 10 Standing on 14 or more against anything. He was making my brain hurt and my yelling at the screen woke the wife up. I was even inclined to comment in live chat, but that would seem to be impertinent.
Should we pity those who believe in Martingale enough to wager that way?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
July 18th, 2014 at 3:05:54 AM
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lol this made your brain hurt, yet you think you can make money on a bac system.
mind...................................blown
mind...................................blown
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
July 18th, 2014 at 3:14:45 AM
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Quote:lol this made your brain hurt, yet you think you can make money on a bac system.
No Not Me. I don't for one second think you can make money on a BAC system. that wasn't my vote, by the way. My vote would be "It's their money, their business"
I can't help feeling that I should have split that last option to "Copy their winning system: " / "Copy their winning system: I'm being sarcastic"
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
July 18th, 2014 at 5:02:36 AM
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everyone seems to be having fun clicking on the last choice
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
July 18th, 2014 at 5:20:39 AM
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Quote: OnceDearQuote:lol this made your brain hurt, yet you think you can make money on a bac system.
No Not Me. I don't for one second think you can make money on a BAC system. that wasn't my vote, by the way. My vote would be "It's their money, their business"
I can't help feeling that I should have split that last option to "Copy their winning system: " / "Copy their winning system: I'm being sarcastic"
but you have another thread where you think giving someone 50k to play a bac system is a valid idea.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
July 18th, 2014 at 6:13:05 AM
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j'accuse!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
July 18th, 2014 at 6:39:41 AM
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Methinks you have me confused with someone else. Do you mean this thread which I did not contribute to at all ???Quote: GWAEQuote: OnceDearQuote:lol this made your brain hurt, yet you think you can make money on a bac system.
No Not Me. I don't for one second think you can make money on a BAC system. that wasn't my vote, by the way. My vote would be "It's their money, their business"
I can't help feeling that I should have split that last option to "Copy their winning system: " / "Copy their winning system: I'm being sarcastic"
but you have another thread where you think giving someone 50k to play a bac system is a valid idea.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/advice/18898-baccarat-betting-system-investment/
I never have believed that there is any significant AP for Bacarrat. I certainly never said that I think giving someone 50K or 50c to play a Bac system would be a good idea. In the thread referred to above, I believe, as you seem to, that the OP is being offered a sham of a scheme. I never said that either.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
July 18th, 2014 at 6:43:44 AM
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Quote: odiousgambiteveryone seems to be having fun clicking on the last choice
lol. Yes they are. Now I know that votes for that option are tongue in cheek :) you cruel lot. I dare anyone to post in this thread arguing that Martingale betting is a good idea for making meaningful profit, relative to a players disposable wealth.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
July 18th, 2014 at 6:52:12 AM
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When I used to play the multi-player blackjack table at Casino on Net I saw Martingale players often. The table limit was $1 to $500 and I saw them start with $1 and go all the way to $500. Am I bad for taking delight when I saw them bust out?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 18th, 2014 at 7:17:31 AM
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Quote: WizardAm I bad for taking delight when I saw them bust out?
:)) Are we bad people. Hmmmm. I think not! The only folks I see here who encourage Martingale madness are those who are not yet wised up to it. But should we take pleasure in watching such poor souls crash and burn??? There's a dilemma.
Thinking out loud...
The house is the adversary, with it's initial edge and totally amoral stance. But it needs income with which to pay winners. Might as well be the unwise Martingalers that feed them.
I personally don't like to see unwise players get burned and would feel naturally inclined to advise them.
But, how often we would be told in no uncertain terms to mind our own business. So no such advice at the table.
And how often such players would point smugly at their success so far and go on to extoll the virtues of their system.
I'm sad to say that some bigtime losers in bricks and mortar casinos don't show much evidence of deserving their wealth, either squandering money they've inherited, or money that might be better spent on family, etc etc. Yes... I know, I'm making assumptions and steriotyping people I know nothing about. Does that make me a bad person too?
Overall, I think that we are right to point at and mock those who crash and burn to Martingale, as a service to those who might adopt the 'system'. If it's our duty as civilised, intelligent citizens, then heck... We might as well enjoy it.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
July 18th, 2014 at 7:28:33 AM
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Yes. And sometimes it is good to be bad.Quote: WizardAm I bad for taking delight when I saw them bust out?
I know of a fellow (who I'm told has been on this site before) who martigales poker tables, or tries to. I'm pretty sure he'd martingale a vending machine if he could, or a parking meter if he could get a driver license and a car to park. And I follow him a bit online (he believes he's a wildly successful famous celebrity blogger) solely to look forward to his next well deserved stint of sleeping in a box.
And I don't want to have to go to whatever place is in store for those who are not "bad" like that.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
July 18th, 2014 at 7:37:38 AM
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Never wise up a chump.
... Unless that 'wising up' involves getting the chump to read WoO.
After all, if it weren't for the crappy players and system players, can you imagine what new rules the casinos would think up? I think a better emotion should be 'grateful.'
... Unless that 'wising up' involves getting the chump to read WoO.
Maybe 'delight' is the wrong emotion, but you certainly don't need to feel bad.Quote: WizardAm I bad for taking delight when I saw them bust out?
After all, if it weren't for the crappy players and system players, can you imagine what new rules the casinos would think up? I think a better emotion should be 'grateful.'
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
July 18th, 2014 at 7:47:49 AM
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What I find must amusing about Martingale is that people think they're so brilliant to come up with it independently.
After a recent trip, my uncle pulled me aside and after insisting on confidentiality, informed me of his plan to just milk the casino for free money by doubling up each time-- 5, 10, 15, 30, 50... (I'm not quite sure how he got those numbers.) After all, it's impossible to lose five hands in a row. Well, it might've happened ONCE...
One time, I had a PGP table take about 85% commission; they took the commission out of the win, gave me the change off one chip, and put the remainder of the win back in the tray. When the manager came by to check on things, all he said was 'That's how we keep the lights on,' and left. (Dealer then paid.)
After a recent trip, my uncle pulled me aside and after insisting on confidentiality, informed me of his plan to just milk the casino for free money by doubling up each time-- 5, 10, 15, 30, 50... (I'm not quite sure how he got those numbers.) After all, it's impossible to lose five hands in a row. Well, it might've happened ONCE...
Quote: DJTeddyBearAfter all, if it weren't for the crappy players and system players, can you imagine what new rules the casinos would think up? I think a better emotion should be 'grateful.'
One time, I had a PGP table take about 85% commission; they took the commission out of the win, gave me the change off one chip, and put the remainder of the win back in the tray. When the manager came by to check on things, all he said was 'That's how we keep the lights on,' and left. (Dealer then paid.)
July 18th, 2014 at 8:54:08 AM
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Quote: OnceDearMethinks you have me confused with someone else. Do you mean this thread which I did not contribute to at all ???Quote: GWAEQuote: OnceDearQuote:lol this made your brain hurt, yet you think you can make money on a bac system.
No Not Me. I don't for one second think you can make money on a BAC system. that wasn't my vote, by the way. My vote would be "It's their money, their business"
I can't help feeling that I should have split that last option to "Copy their winning system: " / "Copy their winning system: I'm being sarcastic"
but you have another thread where you think giving someone 50k to play a bac system is a valid idea.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/advice/18898-baccarat-betting-system-investment/
I never have believed that there is any significant AP for Bacarrat. I certainly never said that I think giving someone 50K or 50c to play a Bac system would be a good idea. In the thread referred to above, I believe, as you seem to, that the OP is being offered a sham of a scheme. I never said that either.
my bad you are right. I was on my phone so I will use that as an excuse. At least both names start with the same letter.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
July 18th, 2014 at 8:56:11 AM
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Quote: WizardWhen I used to play the multi-player blackjack table at Casino on Net I saw Martingale players often. The table limit was $1 to $500 and I saw them start with $1 and go all the way to $500. Am I bad for taking delight when I saw them bust out?
I always stop and watch people do this on roulette. I probably see someone do it on red or black at least 2 times a month. If it wasn't for these types of people the casinos would stop comping so much and would watch APs much more.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
July 18th, 2014 at 9:45:15 AM
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What amuses me at the roulette table is the tendency for some players to insist on scattering ALL their chips over the table in a pseudo random way. But then, having covered maybe 2/3 of the table it's almost inevitable that they get wiped out in five to ten spins. That moment when multiple players have completely peppered the table with a multitude of colours and denominations of chips and then some solitary uncovered number comes up and it all gets raked away. That I enjoy watching.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
July 18th, 2014 at 10:16:43 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearMaybe 'delight' is the wrong emotion, but you certainly don't need to feel bad.
I think we feel the same thing when two huge rivals play each other in sports. Seems to me that I take more pleasure is seeing the other team lose than my own team win. Or maybe it is just me. I like the Ravens and Orioles and get some satisfaction when they beat a team I am indifferent about. However, I get much more pleasure when I see a team I hate, namely the Patriots and Yankees, lose to anybody.
To tie this into the Martingale, I see system players as in the 180-degree opposite camp as math players like myself.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 18th, 2014 at 11:15:28 AM
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There is nothing wrong with martingale unless you believe it can beat the casino. When someone insists martingale works and they gain an advantage, that's when I love to see them get crushed.
As far as I'm concerned, if the game is -EV and the martingaler knows it, then it may be better for a guy to use that system, depending on what his goals are. He may play less negative EV hands then a flat bettor because he has either hit his goal and stops or busted out quickly.
As far as I'm concerned, if the game is -EV and the martingaler knows it, then it may be better for a guy to use that system, depending on what his goals are. He may play less negative EV hands then a flat bettor because he has either hit his goal and stops or busted out quickly.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 18th, 2014 at 11:31:50 AM
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I was about to post something similar. Any negative expectation bets are all the same.Quote: AxelWolfThere is nothing wrong with martingale unless you believe it can beat the casino. When someone insists martingale works and they gain an advantage, that's when I love to see them get crushed.
As far as I'm concerned, if the game is -EV and the martingaler knows it, then it may be better for a guy to use that system, depending on what his goals are. He may play less negative EV hands then a flat bettor because he has either hit his goal and stops or busted out quickly.
I am a robot.
July 18th, 2014 at 1:04:30 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfThere is nothing wrong with martingale unless you believe it can beat the casino.
But it seems to me the players who bet more when winning are a much happier group than the guy who bets more when he is losing. That essentially is what the Martingaler is.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
July 18th, 2014 at 10:59:46 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfThere is nothing wrong with martingale unless you believe it can beat the casino. When someone insists martingale works and they gain an advantage, that's when I love to see them get crushed.
As far as I'm concerned, if the game is -EV and the martingaler knows it, then it may be better for a guy to use that system, depending on what his goals are. He may play less negative EV hands then a flat bettor because he has either hit his goal and stops or busted out quickly.
I often use something of a martingale (though my system is a bit less aggressive in that I have to lose a few in a row before it kicks in. If I'm on a $10 table and I lose 3 or four hands in a row I might bet $35; then $85 then $175). It gives me the thrill of making some big bets occasionally and I believe that it helps with comps. It is also fun to be betting black at a table where everyone else is betting $10 or $15. But the main reason I do it is that it locks in a lot of wins. I win most of the time I go to the casino as a result of the martingale. If I win a few hundred bucks at the casino it feels good and I enjoy that feeling for a few days. I feel like I beat the system, like I cheated death! The inevitable large losses are not fun and when they happen i will stay away for a few weeks which is ok as well. But the other players tend to be very encouraging when I make the large bets and the dealer will often make me sweat the hand a bit more which I also enjoy.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
July 19th, 2014 at 1:35:18 AM
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Quote: WizardI think we feel the same thing when two huge rivals play each other in sports. Seems to me that I take more pleasure is seeing the other team lose than my own team win. Or maybe it is just me. I like the Ravens and Orioles and get some satisfaction when they beat a team I am indifferent about. However, I get much more pleasure when I see a team I hate, namely the Patriots and Yankees, lose to anybody.
To tie this into the Martingale, I see system players as in the 180-degree opposite camp as math players like myself.
Martingale is a great system to magnify the effect of any consistent edge. If you could develop a 5% consistent player edge in any game, reverse martingale is like a nuclear warhead to the casino. Max bets are the casino's only hope!
The systems absolutely work -- for whichever side has the edge.
Why the dice-influencing sites don't talk more about what casinos have the highest max bet limits and share stories of doing full pressure trying not to win until you're forced to get paid from hitting the max, I don't know.
Once you have enough events, it becomes harder and harder to escape any edge that exists with a Martingale system applied to it.
aahigh.com
July 19th, 2014 at 3:52:26 AM
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You are talking as if Martingalers always lose a bunch of hands in a row. They may go back and forth just like a flat bettor. They have a very good chance of winning in the short sessions. There are certain situations(like free Blackjack chips, I have done very well over all) I will martingale 4 or 5 times, If I hit that level, I don't keep going because I know the next hand is still a "50/50". I don't fool myself thinking this is a winning system and I would never go out of my way to go play some Marty system.Quote: odiousgambitBut it seems to me the players who bet more when winning are a much happier group than the guy who bets more when he is losing. That essentially is what the Martingaler is.
I will say it again, If someone thinks martingale is the nuts and they play it because they think its a winning system, I LOVE TO SEE THEM LOSE IT ALL. If a guy is just messing around in a recreational way since he's going to play anyways, I say, go for it. I just hope they have a limit.
I would love to see a guy with some big bucks, someone who believes in martingale, do a mini documentary reality show type thing, where he attempts this system. If he was a cool likable guy I would root for him. It would be great for the casinos.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 19th, 2014 at 3:58:49 AM
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If you had a 5% edge why would you want to martingale? Why not flat bet the max or just flat bet within your bankroll?Quote: AhighMartingale is a great system to magnify the effect of any consistent edge. If you could develop a 5% consistent player edge in any game, reverse martingale is like a nuclear warhead to the casino. Max bets are the casino's only hope!
The systems absolutely work -- for whichever side has the edge.
Why the dice-influencing sites don't talk more about what casinos have the highest max bet limits and share stories of doing full pressure trying not to win until you're forced to get paid from hitting the max, I don't know.
Once you have enough events, it becomes harder and harder to escape any edge that exists with a Martingale system applied to it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 19th, 2014 at 4:03:48 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfIf you had a 5% edge why would you want to martingale? Why not flat bet the max or just flat bet within your bankroll?
C'mon, we don't want to beat the casino, we want to OWN the casino :) And we don't want to waste all day on it.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
July 19th, 2014 at 4:19:27 AM
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Just let me know when you get that unlimited 5% table edge nowadays.Quote: OnceDearC'mon, we don't want to beat the casino, we want to OWN the casino :) And we don't want to waste all day on it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 19th, 2014 at 4:55:54 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfJust let me know when you get that unlimited 5% table edge nowadays.
It's not always as hard as you may think. Find a local joint that hosts a new table game, preferably an original invented by the owners, and see if they got the rules or the math wrong. Or like Paigowdan has mentioned, find a joint that's running an ill-conceived promotion.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
July 19th, 2014 at 8:48:28 AM
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REALLY??? PROMOTIONS, NEW GAMES. I never heard of such things. I don't think anyone can gain an advantage in any casino playing any game, its impossible.Quote: DeucekiesIt's not always as hard as you may think. Find a local joint that hosts a new table game, preferably an original invented by the owners, and see if they got the rules or the math wrong. Or like Paigowdan has mentioned, find a joint that's running an ill-conceived promotion.
PS. I was referring to a long term unlimited betting situation.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 19th, 2014 at 1:46:08 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfREALLY??? PROMOTIONS, NEW GAMES. I never heard of such things. I don't think anyone can gain an advantage in any casino playing any game, its impossible.
PS. I was referring to a long term unlimited betting situation.
It's not impossible. I've seen it done before. How long term the opportunity lasts depends of how long before the casino figures out why they're getting killed on a game.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
