what are people writing on those baccarat cards?

we all know that the deck composition hardly ever matters.. so what are people keeping track of?

Quote: chrisr

we all know that the deck composition hardly ever matters.. so what are people keeping track of?

They care keeping track of what they perceive to be patterns that, according to them, could re-occur sometime in the future.

They may also write (edit - DOH!!!) down the targets and weights count if they are attacking the pairs bet, hey, hey :)

Dang where is the gr88888888888one when ya really need him, hey hey?

milk, eggs, bread, sodawater, etc.

Quote: chrisr

we all know that the deck composition hardly ever matters.. so what are people keeping track of?

You're right, but those that write stuff believe the patterns can predict future trends.

Knowing how silly that is, the casinos allow it, and run the game slowly to enable it.

Hell, the casinos even provide the paper and pencils!

876-5309

Quote: AxelWolf

876-5309

Ah, 867...

Rest assurred the smart ones know what they are doing and write accordingly. A different mindset is required which is alien to most here. That doesn't matter, you do what needs to be done.

Baccarat cards. Theeeeeiiir gr8!

deleted

Some write down the exact same results displayed on the monitor, lol.

Quote: EdgeLooker

Some write down the exact same results displayed on the monitor, lol.

I saw a dealer once kick the plug out of the socket for the computer that was keeping track of the results. The uproar was hilarious. After it finally booted back up, the players made the dealer go through and re-enter all the results.

Wow. I'm surprised the display doesn't have a memory for that.

Quote: EdgeLooker

Some write down the exact same results displayed on the monitor, lol.

and some don't, lol.

If somebody asked me to fly a fighter jet from point A to B, I couldn't, doesn't mean it can't be done, it's just that I don't know how. Or more relevant to this forum, if somebody asked me to predict a drop zone on the roulette tables via wheel clocking, I couldn't do it, doesn't mean Laurence Scott isn't a reknowned expert in this field. Nor should it be dismissed, as that Spanish guy who got incredible grief from casino's in Mardrid before he won a million and there are court records to prove it is not a myth & that it is/was possible to make an incredible amount of money on a negative expectation game.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wow. I'm surprised the display doesn't have a memory for that.

It is controlled by a normal PC running MS Windows, when it freezes, it is all gone. Pit Bosses don't have the brains to cold boot the thing and have to call IT.

Quote: evoque

and some don't, lol.

If somebody asked me to fly a fighter jet from point A to B, I couldn't, doesn't mean it can't be done, it's just that I don't know how. Or more relevant to this forum, if somebody asked me to predict a drop zone on the roulette tables via wheel clocking, I couldn't do it, doesn't mean Laurence Scott isn't a reknowned expert in this field. Nor should it be dismissed, as that Spanish guy who got incredible grief from casino's in Mardrid before he won a million and there are court records to prove it is not a myth & that it is/was possible to make an incredible amount of money on a negative expectation game.

If you can clock a roulette wheel to predict where the ball will land, roulette is no longer a negative expectation game. The negative expectation comes from the assumption that all numbers are equally likely to come up.

If you can get information about the next card(s) to come out in baccarat (through marked cards or edge sorting or a dealer somehow flashing them) then it's not a negative expectation game either. However, without this information, it remains a negative expectation game, and therefore cannot be beaten, no matter how you move your bets around.

Quote: evoque

If somebody asked me to fly a fighter jet from point A to B, I couldn't

to be fair you probably could, you just have to point the plane in the right direction. Landing is the hard part.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

If you can get information about the next card(s) to come out in baccarat (through marked cards or edge sorting or a dealer somehow flashing them) then it's not a negative expectation game either. However, without this information, it remains a negative expectation game, and therefore cannot be beaten, no matter how you move your bets around.

Generally this doesn't happen, therefore it is a negative expectation game and will remain so, no disputing that. However I do well playing it, could just be a case of watching a video with an ugly ending, just that I have not got to the end yet and it is a long movie.

Quote: evoque

Generally this doesn't happen, therefore it is a negative expectation game and will remain so, no disputing that. However I do well playing it, could just be a case of watching a video with an ugly ending, just that I have not got to the end yet and it is a long movie.

Last time you were here, weren't you talking about how you tilted off some huge amount of money?

Quote: evoque

Generally this doesn't happen, therefore it is a negative expectation game and will remain so, no disputing that. However I do well playing it, could just be a case of watching a video with an ugly ending, just that I have not got to the end yet and it is a long movie.

what is your betting and play strategy exactly? how well have you done? how many hands have you played (life-time)?

Quote: evoque

Generally this doesn't happen, therefore it is a negative expectation game and will remain so, no disputing that. However I do well playing it, could just be a case of watching a video with an ugly ending, just that I have not got to the end yet and it is a long movie.

More likely that you go home from the movie and just choose not to talk about the ugly ending

Quote: michael99000

More likely that you go home from the movie and just choose not to talk about the ugly ending

Oh I see, only blackjack players are supposed to win?? lol. I used to play BJ many years ago. I used the HiLo count from KO BJ Ken's book, after one session making next to nothing after 8hrs of table action I gave that up. Anyway I make no apologies in not satisfying your wanton quest to wallow in somebody else casino demise <smirk>, your issue is that due to maths and some dreaded minuscule house edge, you can't spot the forest beyond the trees, continue ranting.

Quote: evoque

Oh I see, only blackjack players are supposed to win?? lol. I used to play BJ many years ago. I used the HiLo count from KO BJ Ken's book, after one session making next to nothing after 8hrs of table action I gave that up. Anyway I make no apologies in not satisfying your wanton quest to wallow in somebody else casino demise <smirk>, your issue is that due to maths and some dreaded minuscule house edge, you can't spot the forest beyond the trees, continue ranting.

True. I mean he played once and got a small win. Time to give it up!

Lol. You guys are trying to bait evoque/Egalite to blow his top. Oh the countdown towards another ban begins. Or it has already started.

it seems that every baccarat history you hear the player is in like the 99.999th percentile of luckiness. There must be something too it.. they can't all be liars.

Quote: Lemieux66

True. I mean he played once and got a small win. Time to give it up!

Back in 2001 I played quite a lot of BJ, I never lost a single session, then one time I dropped and spent 8hrs getting all my money back and left with $15 profit. After spending so long for so little I gave it up, but I am sure you professional counters would merrily accept this as par for the course. All that cloak and dagger stuff pretending your not really counting as you ramp up your bet not wanting to make eyeball withthe dealer or hoping the pit doesn't notice. Having different stacks of cards around the house at eye level to help you rapidly visualise the difference between 3, 4 or more decks, count to true count conversion. Nar, I'm pretty sure, positive in fact, BJ counters exprience as much swing in bankroll as anybody playing Baccarat. The only difference is you believe you will end up ahead in the long term due to having an edge. Me, if I make less than 50% profit on my original buyin' then it has been a bad session, I try to make 100% every session, time permitting and venue opening hours unlimited, I have no idea what you counters aim for.

Quote: chrisr

it seems that every baccarat history you hear the player is in like the 99.999th percentile of luckiness. There must be something too it.. they can't all be liars.

Well they could be I can't speak for anybody else, especially those that weasel out of providing any proof, or become extremely shy when the audience they are wanting to impress offer to meet, turn down challenges, or waffle from the back seats " I can do this and that". I would never believe anybody or take anything at face value, so I do the next best thing, I post images of the shoes played which basically reveal everything once you can interpret them, which side bet, the amount, bet frequency etc, when I can be bothered or if requested. You stick to what you know best and what you are better at, you shouldn't think because you're a BJ counter, you have it all your own way and are a cut above the rest. Yet at the of the day, so long as I make money, it is all that I care about.

Quote: evoque

this graph illustrates no matter how lucky you are eventually you lose baccarat. everyone knows that..

But what is sort of interesting is how futile the game actually is. Even the luckiest 97th percentile never break +75 units and the luckiest 84th percentile never break +17 units

http://oi59.tinypic.com/30kc13m.jpg

Quote: evoque

Oh I see, only blackjack players are supposed to win?? lol. I used to play BJ many years ago. I used the HiLo count from KO BJ Ken's book, after one session making next to nothing after 8hrs of table action I gave that up. Anyway I make no apologies in not satisfying your wanton quest to wallow in somebody else casino demise <smirk>, your issue is that due to maths and some dreaded minuscule house edge, you can't spot the forest beyond the trees, continue ranting.

I must agree. The self proclaimed AP's troll around with their supposed 1% advantage in BJ waiting to pounce on anybody that's not playing with an edge. 1% edge really? Doubt it....hey hey

Quote: chrisr

this graph illustrates no matter how lucky you are eventually you lose baccarat. everyone knows that..

But what is sort of interesting is how futile the game actually is. Even the luckiest 97th percentile never break +75 units and the luckiest 84th percentile never break +17 units

http://i59.tinypic.com/30kc13m.jpg

That is why the degenerates all use negative progressions. They lucky ones are ahead quite a few bets before the wheels fall off and they lose everything they own in a single night!

Quote: chrisr

this graph illustrates no matter how lucky you are eventually you lose baccarat. everyone knows that..

But what is sort of interesting is how futile the game actually is. Even the luckiest 97th percentile never break +75 units and the luckiest 84th percentile never break +17 units

http://oi59.tinypic.com/30kc13m.jpg

All you are doing is perpetrating the main-stream view of Baccarat as witnessed by main-stream players, from which I deliberately exclude myself, although fully understand your viewpoint and while you can get lucky on any given hand (9-8), never count on luck.

The figure of 75 units is laughable, I pulled 30 units from my last cut short session, representing a 50%+ profit of my buyin and under 80 units for a 120% profit of my buyin the session before that. I won’t bore you with prior session results as I have already done so elsewhere.

When I sit down later reassured, I shan’t be playing a main-stream game trying to guess which side will win next. I cannot and do not rely on predicting which side might win next (this is how casino’s want to entice me to play by attaching meaningless electronic score boards to tables), such action is an exercise in futility and can only lead to utter frustration in the long term, on that I’m sure we are in agreement.

Because Baccarat is my domain and not yours, I am well conversed with what is required, doubtless alien to maths purists BJ players. You may concentrate on not losing the count, I also concentrate on other aspects, I’m sure experienced Pro BJ players perform and have their mental exercises and routines, so do I. You sometimes have a definable edge present itself within a shoe, which actually guarantees nothing in particular for that shoe, I do not enjoy such luxury, rather rely on probability & MM. When probability bites me in the ass, similar to having a decent positive count yet you don’t win a hand, well I use other aspects to not let those set-backs consume my roll.

I do exceptionally well on some shoes against a basically 50-50 coin flip game, perform averagely on others and lose the odd shoe yet make money. Sure I use a negative progression; negative progressions are dangerous, foolhardy and just give an illusion of winning until the evitable fall, I’ve heard it all before. The wipe-out only happens if you’re dumb enough to let it. My last session I lost six bets in a row and at one stage won 3 times out of 12 bets, while frustrating at no time did it put my roll under stress, still made my cash and walked. Is it not possible to lose 6 hands in a row with a positive count as your increasing your bets? It’s called gambling and everything and anything can and will happen.

While a bunch of negative numbers will never make a positive number on a calculator, If BJ counters think they are some sort of exclusive elitist group of gamblers when it comes to raking money from a casino, well it is rather egotistical and narrow minded & I’m afraid you’re wrong, no doubt somewhat influenced based on what you have observed of the Bacc pit, which I fully understand having sat amongst Baccarat players for years, I am the exception.

Quote: evoque

The figure of 75 units is laughable... Sure I use a negative progression...

then obviously the chart labeled (flat bet) doesn't apply to your betting system.

If you broke out all of your bet levels into their own units.. (i.e 1x bets, 2x bets, 3x bets).. each individual level would follow the cart.

Quote: DMSCR

Lol. You guys are trying to bait evoque/Egalite to blow his top. Oh the countdown towards another ban begins. Or it has already started.

No that was your insidious small minded jerk off game that you were playing all by your-self, what really did you achieve.