Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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February 17th, 2014 at 4:22:08 PM permalink
It'd be more accurate to say within a card counting system there exists a betting structure. It's not all betting, there's which system (hilo, halves, zen, KO..) you're using, indices, departures, and spread.
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
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February 17th, 2014 at 4:26:02 PM permalink
Its a method. The knowledge of Proper Play Strategy coupled with Proper Betting Strategy, based upon advantage or disadvantage produces an informed "Best Decision" that may lead to an overall Player Advantage. I would also argue that certain Side-Bets are also subject to an informed Play Strategy, even those with rather high House advantage.

A system presumes a Betting Strategy only without regard to a Play Strategy. This is why Roulette, Baccarat, and Craps are three of the more popular "System" games. Blackjack OTOH, even with Basic Strategy has situations involving a doubled wager (more if splitting pairs). Blackjack "needs" a Playing Strategy dependent upon initial hand received. In Baccarat, the decision is by fixed rule removing Player obligation, and Craps is a choice to wager more or not win, lose, or continue. Roulette is "pure" system, one spin per decision.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
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February 17th, 2014 at 10:25:03 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Right, but that is based on previous events. The only reason there is a present state is because of what exited the shoe?

The only reason there's a shoe there is because someone put it there, because someone opened a casino on that spot. The point of our derision of "betting systems" is that they're based on the events themselves, with the consequences only the product of some brand of magical thinking or other (usually either personification or the gambler's fallacy).
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
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February 17th, 2014 at 10:55:34 PM permalink
You can make a case either way as we have seen. Keep in mind that, while most of us use the info from card counting to both alter our wagering and play, there are some that only use the count for only wagering purposes and just play basic strategy. There are also a few instances and it was more in days of yesteryear when there were deeply dealt single deck games, where players flat bet and only used the info from count to only alter play.

But I think it is fair to say if you are altering wagers based on the count, that is a betting system.
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February 18th, 2014 at 12:29:31 AM permalink
Could "counting cards" be classified as a "betting system"?

The true linguist with no experience pertaining to gambling might say, "OK, if I count 200 cards out of 312, that leaves 112 cards. Tell me what I should bet."
(Yes, I previously debated with someone about this subject, and that was the response I received.)

The distinguishing factor which separates counting from other systems used to determine size of the wager (or even mere placement of a wager) is the fact that the purpose of counting is to determine the existence of player advantage.
With counting, one has the ability to determine if probability favors the dealer or the player prior to placement of the wager, whereas other betting systems tend to rely on history of previous outcomes (wins/losses) to determine the amount of the next wager with no consideration for probability.

Define it as you wish.
In today's industry, the counter will be segregated from all other "betting system" players.
The casinos worry about the counter; they do not sweat the other "betting systems".
On this very site, you could start a thread about counting in the Blackjack forum (or whatever other game is being discussed), and everything will be fine. If you discuss any system which disregards probability, it should rightfully be discussed in the Betting Systems forum.

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