New Baccarat Community

I hope baccaratlabs is enjoying this thread that he started even though his name is in red. Does anyone know the length of his suspension? Is it more than three days?

Hello, 1BB.

It appears as a permanent banishment....but you'd need to ask the admin for any exact details into the matter.

I visited his website, and, as I stated in a previous post, he appears as a gentleman to me, and I happen to think that some of what I read had some validity and/or usefulness to it. That said, the site also appears populated with a lot of "tripe" as well....but mightn't that be said of any public forum?

Finally, it certainly does contain, after all, some actual Baccarat discourse....a bit difficult to garner in this particular forum.

I just might, however briefly, "stick my toes into the water" over there....we'll see.

baccaratlabs/OrangeChip is banned permanently in here. Maybe he asked before he posted things may be different.

It is a "good" site and it serves a good service/purpose for the folks who are devoted to the game. So a good place for them to hang out and communicate with each other.

Hopefully they are better run and managed than Gamblers Glen and the defunct BF.

I didn't see anything, in my opinion, that was inappropriate in his posts so I assume he was kicked out because of the link he posted. If he had read the rules he would have known that posting a link without permission is not allowed. If he had read some of this forum he would have seen that this rule is sometimes enforced in a variety of ways by our hard working administrators, both undercover and not so undercover. Anything from a courtesy warning to a permanent ban could be imposed, with the latter for the most grievous offense.

Perhaps he was exited about his new site and didn't read the rules. His doesn't seem to be a site that would compete with the WOV sponsor. He said it was free to join. Maybe he read some of the forum and got those pesky mixed signals.

What if he came across the member here who posted over 200 links to a sports betting site over a 6 month period? The same member who started 10 threads with those same links to a site that would be in direct competition with this site's sponsor. The majority of those links still exist here. The punishment for this link dropper with total disregard for this forum? A three day suspension. Mixed signals indeed.

I don't know baccaratlabs and I'm not going to lobby on his behalf as is done for other members. I don't expect anyone else will either. The question I have is, his loss or ours? Unfortunately we'll never know.

Hi, this is orangechip (baccaratlabs). I am the person who started this thread and posted the link.

I figured that I would take a few minutes to register a new account and apologize. I honestly did not read the forum rules (I probably should have). At the moment I was excited to tell people about the community and I forgot that many forums are usually are against people posting links, especially in the first post. I deserved some type of punishment.

I realize that my actions reflected poorly upon myself, my forum, and the quality of this forum. And I apologize for that.

I do not want my account to be unbanned. You can even ban this one if you would like. I just wanted to make this post.

Thanks

Orangechip

Maybe all will be forgiven. You're certainly not the first person to join this forum and post a link and you're not the first to join under another name. I give you credit for attempting to clear the air and apologize. Maybe someday you will become an administrator at this forum. You never know.

I don't think OrangeChip did anything intentionally wrong. He certainly meant well just the approach to it was "bad." It is all the bad apples in the past pimping up their crap/site with the intention to get money from people is what ruined things. OrangeChip's intentions is none of that. He just wanted to bring attention to his site and build a community for like minded people passionate about a certain table game.

Quote: orangechip

Hi, this is orangechip (baccaratlabs). I am the person who started this thread and posted the link.

I figured that I would take a few minutes to register a new account and apologize. I honestly did not read the forum rules (I probably should have). At the moment I was excited to tell people about the community and I forgot that many forums are usually are against people posting links, especially in the first post. I deserved some type of punishment.

I realize that my actions reflected poorly upon myself, my forum, and the quality of this forum. And I apologize for that.

I do not want my account to be unbanned. You can even ban this one if you would like. I just wanted to make this post.

Thanks

Orangechip

Hello, orangechip.

You represent both yourself and your forum rather well, good for you. Oh, and good luck with your new forum.

Quote: 1BB

Maybe someday you will become an administrator at this forum.

You're wise beyond your years, 1BB; great comment.

Quote: DMSCR

I don't think OrangeChip did anything intentionally wrong. He certainly meant well just the approach to it was "bad." He just wanted to bring attention to his site and build a community for like minded people passionate about a certain table game.

Yep.

Problem is, the very mention of the word "baccarat" does not resonate too well 'round these parts.....

Not much we can do about that, D-man, because it's not my ball, nor yours; it's their ball, it's their game, played strictly by their rules. So if it's anything "bac related", it'll most assuredly be followed by some really "negative expectancy"......

Quote: gr8player

Problem is, the very mention of the word "baccarat" does not resonate too well 'round these parts.....

Not much we can do about that, D-man, because it's not my ball, nor yours; it's their ball, it's their game, played strictly by their rules. So if it's anything "bac related", it'll most assuredly be followed by some really "negative expectancy"......

I disagree with your assumption.

Do a simple search for threads related to Baccarat on this site; then realize how many of those threads are in the "Betting Systems" forum.

With the understanding that this is most definitely a "math-oriented" site, any conversation that involves unproven claims of "overcoming the math" will meet strong resistance, regardless of the game being discussed.

Contrary to your opinion, the problem is not the word "Baccarat".
The problem is the lack of intelligent discussion about the game.
Rather than attempting to learn and understand the statements of those truly well-versed in gaming mathematics, some individuals would rather turn a blind eye and even go so far as to label the real experts as "math heads", "matthites", "naysayers", etc.
Meanwhile, those same individuals are more than happy to claim success at beating the game, preaching methods which have neither foundation nor substance to an unsuspecting public.

Any well-respected forum should possess a means of maintaining integrity.
Once again, it's not the game; it's the discussion.

Hello, rob45, I trust all is well with you.

I feel compelled to reiterate here and now that I've full respect for the "real experts" in this forum, and I am fully aware that my stance on the game of Baccarat is not one that is shared by the majority of WoV members.

But, my friend, that said, the Baccarat methodology/approaches that you assert I "preach" most certainly do have real "foundation and substance" to me. In fact, it most certainly could be said of me that "I practice what I preach".

I wish not to lead astray, rather I'd much prefer to lead towards a better place. But only for those that are about to undertake this game anyhow; I wish not to act as any recruitment service for the casinos, for that is most assuredly not my intention.

Frankly, my words should fall deaf onto those uninitiated ears anyhow. Only those with some real table experience can glean my true meanings within my posts.

And that, my friend, is where, frankly, I think quite a large number of our esteemed "real experts" may be lacking.

Anyone can take out their calculator and read to me (or anyone that is interested) the negative results of placing a bet in any casino-banked game. Honestly, hasn't that point been made rather clearly 'round here? Do you really think that there is anyone who doesn't understand the -EV?

Why, however, must everyone react in a similar manner to that -EV?

Why can't those that attempt to get the better of it be just as right as those, even given their calculators, haven't a clue as to the means that just might serve to negate the negative expectancy?

I know, I know, rob45, even before you say it: OK, gr8player, PROVE IT!

What would you have me prove?:

That I choose to play Baccarat because it is a closed-end shoe game that, inherently, carries certain traits (read: trends)?
That a savvy player can take advantage of these "certain traits" if he were patient and disciplined enough?
That, even given those shoes that are "losers" (read: lack trends), he could bypass those atypical shoes (read: "no-bet") while he awaits a more advantageous betting situation?
That a money-management plan built around his prevailing statistics (read: strike rates/drawdowns) could, effectively, turn the tables on the casino where he might be making more dollars on potentially "better percentage" plays than he loses on those that carry a "lesser percentage"?
Lastly, just whom do you want me to tutor in this game? In other words, how much is enough? How much information need I disseminate to either convince you or school someone else on the validity of my stated Baccarat methodology/approach?

You know as well as I do, rob45, that it's one big "merry-go-round" ride we're on. You can't ask and I can't answer. You know it and I know it. Best to simply accept that reality....

Stay well.

Quote: gr8player

Why can't those that attempt to get the better of it be just as right as those, even given their calculators, haven't a clue as to the means that just might serve to negate the negative expectancy?

Do or do not. There is no try.

I'm not sure what you mean by "attempt," but either you have the edge or you don't.

Quote: gr8player

Yep.

Problem is, the very mention of the word "baccarat" does not resonate too well 'round these parts.....

Not much we can do about that, D-man, because it's not my ball, nor yours; it's their ball, it's their game, played strictly by their rules. So if it's anything "bac related", it'll most assuredly be followed by some really "negative expectancy"......

gr8,

Please see that as a GOOD thing. This means the casino continues to do what they do since many that play this game don't know what they are doing. If this get publicly solved I say this game is screwed. Like blackjack. Or baccarat in Macau. Do you know that you are not allowed to record shoes there and must resort to looking at the electronic scoreboard only? If that is true here in the US I am going have to close shop!

Quote: MathExtremist

I'm not sure what you mean by "attempt," but either you have the edge or you don't.

Hello, MathExtremist, I trust all is well with you.

The edge, at least as far I am concerned, is "collective" in nature. In other words, I calculate my edge only as it pertains to a "group" of bets/plays.

You see, I readily acknowledge the HE, and the mathematics of it all, re the fact that I'm paid out at less than true odds on any winning wager.

But, that said, I put my faith into my collective effort that goes into each and every shoe/session I play.

That can, and does, include my "no-bet" option. So, can you see where I feel that I have the best of it even when I include my "not betting" into the mix? That said, I also feel I have the best of it when I do place my bet, but that "best of it" only "kicks in" for me as a sum total of my session play, and, even then, can (and will, sometimes) carry over into the very next session, and the very next session, and the very next...aw, you get the picture.

Stay well.

Quote: DMSCR

gr8,

Please see that as a GOOD thing. This means the casino continues to do what they do since many that play this game don't know what they are doing. If this get publicly solved I say this game is screwed. Like blackjack. Or baccarat in Macau. Do you know that you are not allowed to record shoes there and must resort to looking at the electronic scoreboard only? If that is true here in the US I am going have to close shop!

About three weeks ago, at the Borgata, during a relatively good portion of the shoe, all of a sudden the electronic display goes blank. Tried as they could, the darn thing never did go back into display mode. The result? Everyone left the table and opened a new game at an adjacent table. So they effectively closed this particular shoe/table down. Innocent circumstance? Or not?

(Sidenote: Did I say "everyone left to open a new game"? All but I. I cashed out. You see, there is no room for "frustrating second-guessing" in my Bac game. By terminating that session, frustration and/or second-guessing became "non-starters" for me. Just imagine if I'd have stayed a happened to turn a winning session into a losing one? And all done by switching from a "trender" to a "bender"! No, sir, as I said, a "non-starter" for me.)

But, that all said, yes, D-man, if I weren't able to track each shoe my way, I'd give this game up in a heartbeat.

Until then, my friend, game on...

Was everyone winning? If that is true I wouldn't be surprised. I would of cashed out too and grabbed something to eat.

That is why it is important to record the shoe your way and not depend on some one else to tell you the direction of anything. Was it EZ Bac? If it was I can understand everyone leaving the shoe since at the Borgata you are not allowed to play both sides to move the shoe. Well I think that is the rule for the whole of AC since I remember The Trump didn't allow playing both sides either.

I can say that for AC to survive and thrive the casinos there need to lax up their baccarat rules like in Vegas.

" Best to simply accept that reality...." You appear to have lost touch with reality !

Quote: gr8player

Hello, MathExtremist, I trust all is well with you.

The edge, at least as far I am concerned, is "collective" in nature. In other words, I calculate my edge only as it pertains to a "group" of bets/plays.

You see, I readily acknowledge the HE, and the mathematics of it all, re the fact that I'm paid out at less than true odds on any winning wager.

But, that said, I put my faith into my collective effort that goes into each and every shoe/session I play.

That can, and does, include my "no-bet" option. So, can you see where I feel that I have the best of it even when I include my "not betting" into the mix?

So you have the edge in baccarat because you include your "not betting" in the mix? If "not betting" has a positive edge for you, you should do that all the time and skip the baccarat altogether...

The edge on baccarat is calculable even if you don't make any plays at all. It doesn't vary from hand to hand the way it does in blackjack. Whether you bet or "no-bet" has nothing to do with it, and card counting in baccarat is provably impractical. Besides, that's not what you're doing. You're just guessing what to bet on next (or not, apparently) based on what is ultimately a faith in the Gambler's Fallacy.

So no, I don't see how you have the edge because you don't. The percentage of your wagers you expect to lose to the house is just the same as anyone else's.

Quote: gr8player

Hello, MathExtremist, I trust all is well with you.

The edge, at least as far I am concerned, is "collective" in nature. In other words, I calculate my edge only as it pertains to a "group" of bets/plays.

You see, I readily acknowledge the HE, and the mathematics of it all, re the fact that I'm paid out at less than true odds on any winning wager.

Wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago the collective brains here had to explain to you how to calculate an edge? Along with your vehement denial that you didn't have a big edge with your '53% bet selection method'?

This is a rhetorical question, of course, merely to show ' I readily acknowledge the HE, and the mathematics of it all' is probably a misconception you have.

But you can not say anything not is not true on the internet. I know because I read that on the internet.

Quote: MathExtremist

Do or do not. There is no try.

I'm not sure what you mean by "attempt," but either you have the edge or you don't.

Yeah, I think we all know the answer to this one...

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Yeah, I think we all know the answer to this one...

If you try really hard and close your eyes and pray really hard and go with your gut, you can overcome that edge. Why not? ;)