I'd really like an answer to this question..,

from a prior thread that remains unanswered: When you say "If you get to play a chip until you lose, you want to do it on an as-even-money bet as you can find, so you have the best chance of it hitting more than once before it's lost." Does this mean that betting a one-way chip (play it till you lose it) would have better value on, say, betting 13-36 on roulette than a 50-50 wager?

Quote: Greasyjohn

from a prior thread that remains unanswered: When you say "If you get to play a chip until you lose, you want to do it on an as-even-money bet as you can find, so you have the best chance of it hitting more than once before it's lost." Does this mean that betting a one-way chip (play it till you lose it) would have better value on, say, betting 13-36 on roulette than a 50-50 wager?

That statement is incorrect. If you get to play it until you lose, it has the same value as cash (except that you can't cash it out). You want to play it as you would play cash -- on the bets with the lowest house edges.

FWIW, whenever I've played with promo chips like that, the casino only let me make even money bets. (Somebody who has more experience with this can probably give a better answer though)

If you can play it until you lose, there's no reason to limit it to even money bets -- it has the same value no matter how you bet it.

If you can play it once only, then limiting to even-money bets makes sense (in that it makes the chip worth half it's face value, less the house edge)

deleted

Fair enough (I had actually read that before)

I was working under the assumption that you were going to play anyway (ie, you are willing to play with cash as well, even in a -EV game, for entertainment purposes). In that case, you should use it as you would use regular cash -- it is worth the same as cash to you.

If you are just looking to cash the chip in as fast as possible and never play again, then, yes, you want to minimize edge x expected # of hands until a loss.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

That statement is incorrect. If you get to play it until you lose, it has the same value as cash (except that you can't cash it out). You want to play it as you would play cash -- on the bets with the lowest house edges.

What is incorrect about that (my) statement? You and I said exactly the same thing, assuming the house is not offering +EV in the base game of a bet (which they "tend" not to do). The bets with the lowest house edge are, by definition, an even money bet, aka 50/50, or as close to it as you can get.

Quote: beachbumbabs

What is incorrect about that (my) statement? You and I said exactly the same thing, assuming the house is not offering +EV in the base game of a bet (which they "tend" not to do). The bets with the lowest house edge are, by definition, an even money bet, aka 50/50, or as close to it as you can get.

I just realized the error in my post so I've deleted it to save anyone from wasting time reading it.

I am hoping I can answer this question by the end of the week :)

Usually "play until you lose" chips are valid in even-money games only, including blackjack. That said, they are worth roughly face value less double the house edge of the game played on. For example, if played on the pass line in craps, the house edge is 1.41%, so the value of the chip would be 100% - 2*1.41% = 97.18%.

Quote: beachbumbabs

The bets with the lowest house edge are, by definition, an even money bet, aka 50/50, or as close to it as you can get.

How do you figure?

The odds bet in craps on a 4 or 10 pays 2-1 and it has 0 house edge.
Buying the 4 or 10 for $25 (and paying $1 commission on wins) pays 49-25 (1.96-1) has a house edge of 1.33%.

On the other hand, betting red in roulette on a double-zero wheel is even money and it has > 5% house edge.

Payouts are uncorrelated to house edge. You can have a long-shot bet with a low edge, and you have have an even-money bet with a high edge.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

How do you figure?

The odds bet in craps on a 4 or 10 pays 2-1 and it has 0 house edge.
Buying the 4 or 10 for $25 (and paying $1 commission on wins) pays 49-25 (1.96-1) has a house edge of 1.33%.

On the other hand, betting red in roulette on a double-zero wheel is even money and it has > 5% house edge.

Payouts are uncorrelated to house edge. You can have a long-shot bet with a low edge, and you have have an even-money bet with a high edge.

You and I are slightly talking past each other. In craps, for example, can you place an odds bet without first placing the base bet to which it's correlated, which has a HE built in? If you can (other than piggybacking on someone else's bets) then I learned something. But that also assumes the house will allow you to place a freebet chip on an odds bet. I've never successfully done that, which just means I haven't seen it, not that there's not a house somewhere that will allow it.

My only point here is that it's not true that the bets with the lowest house edge are the ones with the closes to even-money payouts. The odds bet might have been contrived (since, as you point out, you must make a -EV bet first) but buying the 4 is a perfect example.

Buying the 4 for $25 (and paying $1 commission on wins only) pays 1.96 to 1 (nowhere near even money) and has a house edge of only 1.333%.

Betting on red in double-zero roulette pays exactly even money and has a huge house edge of over 5%.

Specifically, you wrote:

Quote: beachbumbabs

What is incorrect about that (my) statement? You and I said exactly the same thing, assuming the house is not offering +EV in the base game of a bet (which they "tend" not to do). The bets with the lowest house edge are, by definition, an even money bet, aka 50/50, or as close to it as you can get.

And I'm saying that that's not true -- the bets with the lowest house edges are not necessarily the even-money bets.

Maybe you're using "even-money" to mean something different than usual? An even-money bet is any bet that pays 1-to-1. It can have a massive house edge. I can offer you even money if you can flip a coin 28 times and get 28 consecutive heads. My edge is essentially 100% but it's still an even-money bet.