estebanrey
estebanrey
Joined: Oct 4, 2012
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October 5th, 2012 at 10:56:16 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Is there not a stipulation in the Rules that you may not use any kind of computer program to play for you, or do they not care provided it is not Poker?



To be honest, I don't actually know.

But seeing as baccarat is a game of chance, which means there is no 'best play' strategy I don't see why they'd have a problem. If I was playing black jack then maybe because that does require human concentration which when lapsed gives them an advantage.
Mission146
Mission146 
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October 5th, 2012 at 11:16:58 AM permalink
Quote: estebanrey

To be honest, I don't actually know.

But seeing as baccarat is a game of chance, which means there is no 'best play' strategy I don't see why they'd have a problem. If I was playing black jack then maybe because that does require human concentration which when lapsed gives them an advantage.



Betfair Rules: Section: Gaming, Article 4. vi. states as follows:

Quote:

vi.You will place all wagers on Games through the various user interfaces provided on our site and you will not wager through other means, including the use of a "robot" player. The use of programs designed to automatically place bets within certain parameters (i.e. “robot” players) is not permitted on any Games (including Poker, Casino, Arcade Games, Exchange Games or any other Games) on any part of our site;



http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Terms.and.Conditions/

I'd have also agreed not to copy or disseminate that information if I were Registered, but I'm not Registered.

This has nothing to do with whether or not I believe what you are saying because I do. I am imparting this information to you because it is very important that you know that almost every (if not all) on-line gambling site has a Rule such as this one or something very close to it. I would also say that if Variance had been seriously on your side (remember that you are expected to lose) to the tune of $1,000+, then perhaps they would have looked into it a bit more closely. Do you think they care that you actually still played a fair game and merely experienced Positive Variance? They don't.

If they can find any reasonable violation and justification for not paying you the money, you're not getting it, PERIOD. I don't mean to sound so strict about this matter as I personally do not care whether or not you violate their Rules, but I'm merely helping you by telling you this for your own good. I can almost guarantee that there is a certain amount that you hit where they automatically look for any problems with your play, and I'm sure it's an easy matter to see how many hands you play in an hour, and I also believe (even with the miniscule delay it would take for a human to click a mouse) you played impossibly fast. Furthermore, the time interval between bets was probably exactly the same EVERY TIME. You should also keep in mind that to avoid paying you, they don't have to know it, all they need do is suspect it. If they suspect it, best case scenario, "Ok, no bet, here's your original money back."
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
estebanrey
estebanrey
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October 5th, 2012 at 11:42:28 AM permalink
I suspected they probably would have a rule like that and advice heeded.

However, had they not paid out I would have taken them to a small claims court. Living in the UK we have that option if a bookie isn't paying up (not saying I'd win though of course).

Betfair though have one of the best reputations for not playing silly monkeys so I doubt they'd refuse unless they could prove you were cheating (i.e were doing something with a mathematical advantage).
Mission146
Mission146 
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October 5th, 2012 at 1:40:17 PM permalink
Quote: estebanrey

I suspected they probably would have a rule like that and advice heeded.

However, had they not paid out I would have taken them to a small claims court. Living in the UK we have that option if a bookie isn't paying up (not saying I'd win though of course).

Betfair though have one of the best reputations for not playing silly monkeys so I doubt they'd refuse unless they could prove you were cheating (i.e were doing something with a mathematical advantage).



If you're actually in the UK, then by Agreeing to their Terms & Conditions you have entered into a legally binding contract. The only way that you wouldn't lose in court for violating the contract is if a representative of Betfair failed to appear.

IANAL.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
estebanrey
estebanrey
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October 5th, 2012 at 1:53:16 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

If you're actually in the UK, then by Agreeing to their Terms & Conditions you have entered into a legally binding contract. The only way that you wouldn't lose in court for violating the contract is if a representative of Betfair failed to appear.

IANAL.



Glad your such an expert on British Law ;)

But seriously there's no point debating a hypothetical situation when I've had no problems with Betfair so far. As I said, there is absolutely no advantage (and arguable disadvantages) to using a bot to auto play a game of chance so why would they care? And what does it matter if I would have just done the same thing anyway?

Again I reiterate, Betfair have a very good reputation for not needlessly annoying their customers. The only real time they refused to payout was when they screwed up some in-play odds once and ended up losing £29 million as a result.
Mission146
Mission146 
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October 5th, 2012 at 2:07:36 PM permalink
Quote: estebanrey

Glad your such an expert on British Law ;)



That's not what I meant. I just meant that you actually could take them to Court, even if you tried to take the to a Britain Court, but lived in the U.S. (and played from the U.S.) you couldn't because the contract is invalid due to you not being a legal participant.

Quote:

But seriously there's no point debating a hypothetical situation when I've had no problems with Betfair so far. As I said, there is absolutely no advantage (and arguable disadvantages) to using a bot to auto play a game of chance so why would they care? And what does it matter if I would have just done the same thing anyway?



I don't see what the possible disadvantages are, can you not pre-program certain win/loss parameters? I don't see where there exists any possible disadvantage. I'm guessing that it matters, somehow, or they wouldn't have it as a rule.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
estebanrey
estebanrey
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October 6th, 2012 at 4:05:24 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

That's not what I meant. I just meant that you actually could take them to Court, even if you tried to take the to a Britain Court, but lived in the U.S. (and played from the U.S.) you couldn't because the contract is invalid due to you not being a legal participant.



But I'm not from the US, in fact I've never even stepped one foot in America in my life. I'm British, I live in Britain and Betfair is a British company so any dispute would be in a British court based on British law.

Quote: Mission146


I don't see what the possible disadvantages are, can you not pre-program certain win/loss parameters? I don't see where there exists any possible disadvantage. I'm guessing that it matters, somehow, or they wouldn't have it as a rule.



Certain win/loss parameters? What do you mean? I can't program a bot to do anything than I couldn't do manually in a game of chance.

The main disadvantage (which earlier you thought was an advantage) is the fact hands can be played more quickly (not stupidly fast as you are still limited by the program's animations etc), as the wizard will tell you the quicker you go through hands the quicker the 'grind' kicks in. Remember the one time I did it I was betting on the player (ergo the house had an edge), so playing more hands, more quickly is advantageous to the casino as short term wins are more common that long term wins.

Again, this is mostly irrelevant as it was a while I go I used the 'bot'. Now I just play manually for fun and I've never had a problem with Betfair in terms of withdrawing money (they are brilliant in fact and I get it within 3 days).
Mission146
Mission146 
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October 6th, 2012 at 4:59:47 PM permalink
Quote: estebanrey


But I'm not from the US, in fact I've never even stepped one foot in America in my life. I'm British, I live in Britain and Betfair is a British company so any dispute would be in a British court based on British law.



Yes, that's what I meant. You actually could take them to Court as opposed to other players that could not because they didn't even enter legally into the contract. You did enter into it legally, however, and violated it, so you'd lose if it went that far.

Quote:

Certain win/loss parameters? What do you mean? I can't program a bot to do anything than I couldn't do manually in a game of chance.



W/L parameters, you could program it to quit playing after winning or losing a certain amount.

Quote:

The main disadvantage (which earlier you thought was an advantage) is the fact hands can be played more quickly (not stupidly fast as you are still limited by the program's animations etc), as the wizard will tell you the quicker you go through hands the quicker the 'grind' kicks in. Remember the one time I did it I was betting on the player (ergo the house had an edge), so playing more hands, more quickly is advantageous to the casino as short term wins are more common that long term wins.



I understand that, I never implied that the bot gave you an actual advantage.

Quote:

Again, this is mostly irrelevant as it was a while I go I used the 'bot'. Now I just play manually for fun and I've never had a problem with Betfair in terms of withdrawing money (they are brilliant in fact and I get it within 3 days).



I'm glad to hear you have experienced no problems.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
drjohnny
drjohnny
Joined: Sep 2, 2012
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October 10th, 2012 at 9:45:40 PM permalink
UPDATE:

After utilizing this 7 step Martingale system several times in the casino over the past few weeks, I have decided to abandon this system of doom.

I got smashed once after losing 7 hands in a row and had to go "all in" a bunch of other times after losing 6 hands in a row. I was winning only about $150-200 per hour at the $10 tables and I only got to play a few minutes the day I got smashed for $1200.

I have had much better success betting the minimum or nothing at all when the shoes were "random" and then upping my bets when long chops and streaks appeared.

All of my huge wins this year have come from betting $100-500 per hand on chops or streaks that lasted 7-13 hands in a row.

So far the longest pattern I've seen this year was a perfect chop of 20 hands in a row. Unfortunately I approached the table halfway into it and I ended up only betting $25 per hand. If I see something similar now, I will definitely make sure I leave the table with pockets stuffed with orange chips!
doncht
doncht
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May 11th, 2014 at 11:25:48 AM permalink
Just to check on this, can anyone please confirm if 7 step Martingale system still works?

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