A freebie: Class action lawsuit for PA & AC bj players who have been 86ed.
I want to know what the f*** this guy is thinking. If they can't 86 you, then they'll just flat bet you. And getting flat betted is almost as bad as getting 86'd, since you essentially can't play BJ there anymore (why would you flat bet?).
Quote: zoobrewAn even larger issue, is does a private business have any control over their private property. In urban areas every seat in the casino could be filled with a homeless person who couldn't be evicted because its not against the law to sit in a casino seat and not bet.
But, there actually are laws against loitering.
Quote: rdw4potusBut, there actually are laws against loitering.
Actually loitering is not illegal.
In 1992, the city of Chicago adopted an anti-loitering law (Chicago Municipal Code 8-4-015 (1992)) aimed at restricting gang related activity, especially violent crime and drug trafficking.[3] The law, which defined loitering as "remain (ing) in any one place with no apparent purpose," gave police officers a right to disperse such persons and in case of disobedience, provided for a punishment by fine, imprisonment and/or community service. It was ruled unlawful by the Supreme Court of the United States (Chicago v. Morales, 527 U.S. 41 (1999)) as unacceptably vague and not giving citizens clear guidelines on what the acceptable conduct was.
Quote: zoobrewActually loitering is not illegal.
In 1992, the city of Chicago adopted an anti-loitering law (Chicago Municipal Code 8-4-015 (1992)) aimed at restricting gang related activity, especially violent crime and drug trafficking.[3] The law, which defined loitering as "remain (ing) in any one place with no apparent purpose," gave police officers a right to disperse such persons and in case of disobedience, provided for a punishment by fine, imprisonment and/or community service. It was ruled unlawful by the Supreme Court of the United States (Chicago v. Morales, 527 U.S. 41 (1999)) as unacceptably vague and not giving citizens clear guidelines on what the acceptable conduct was.
Are you kidding? One specific law was struck down because it was vague and did not give guidelines on what acceptable conduct was. There are literally (and I DO really actually mean literally) thousands of valid and narrowly construed loitering ordinances in force in cities across the USA.
Edit: though, interestingly, there is no such ordinance in Bensalem, PA. So, I guess if we're specifically limiting ourselves to what Parx can do with respect to limiting access, then they do not have this avenue available to them.
It seems like flat-betting accomplishes the same thing. If I'm counting and I get flat bet, I will just stand up and leave.
Quote: ArtemisCounselor DoctorBJ invites PA & AC bj players to join a class action lawsuit. He will do all the legal work for free. Click the link and read all about it.
A freebie: Class action lawsuit for PA & AC bj players who have been 86ed.
Your headline is wrong. There is no need for such a lawsuit in NJ as the Supreme Court has already ruled that card counting is perfectly legal and casinos may not 86 card counters. The post also clearly says PA only...where did you get NJ from?
First off, I like to go back and play at places I've been backed off at. If they can't 86 me I don't have to worry about legal issues going back. Also, I do shuffle tracking / ace tracking plays, which work better with lower penetration, so if casinos start cutting off more of the shoe that's GOOD for me.
It also opens the door to team play strategies like having a known backed off player sit there playing 5-50 or flat min bet mocking them to keep all eyes away from the real play.
Quote: mcallister3200imo it doesn't mean conditions HAVE to deteriorate, but given AC they most likely would. Missouri has similar laws, and conditions aren't A.C. bad yet. At the moment Pennsylvania requires casinos to stand on 17 and have surrender, but requiring that probably lead to more mediocre pen 8 deck games.
You beat me to this, my home state can't bar card counters. Just flat bet or shuffle when deemed necessary. Most tables are still standard "meh" Midwest/Gulf Coast rules as they have been for years. 6 deck/H17/DOA/DAS/no surrender. Given PA's liberal rules, barring probably helps them a decent bit. PA/MD laws confuse me. BJ gets player protection...but other games...every man for himself! And with the slot taxes mandated...VP is total garbage. :(
PA rules are regulated by Gaming. They are all S17, LS games, so unless Gaming approves rule changes (which casinos have tried twice and turned down), rules won't change.
Quote: 21formeLook at Vegas casinos - there are entire casinos on the strip with 8D shoe 6:5 BJ games. And they can bar players!
PA rules are regulated by Gaming. They are all S17, LS games, so unless Gaming approves rule changes (which casinos have tried twice and turned down), rules won't change.
And those are the $10-15 tables. What are the rules at the $25-50 tables?
Quote: RSAnd those are the $10-15 tables. What are the rules at the $25-50 tables?
I've seen $50 6:5 shoe games at Mandalay Bay and Caesars. All of Venetian and Palazzo are 6:5 except HL room (100-200 mins). All of MOnte Carlo, NYNY and Ecalibut are 6:5 (except their enpty HL rooms), including $25 games on main floor.
Quote: 21formeI've seen $50 6:5 shoe games at Mandalay Bay and Caesars. All of Venetian and Palazzo are 6:5 except HL room (100-200 mins). All of MOnte Carlo, NYNY and Ecalibut are 6:5 (except their enpty HL rooms), including $25 games on main floor.
As of April last year, Venazzo still offered a $50 minimum DD game on the main floor that pays 3:2.
Quote: 21formeLook at Vegas casinos - there are entire casinos on the strip with 8D shoe 6:5 BJ games. And they can bar players!
PA rules are regulated by Gaming. They are all S17, LS games, so unless Gaming approves rule changes (which casinos have tried twice and turned down), rules won't change.
Outlawing casinos from 86ing APs may not be all that bad (i.e., State of Missouri vs its Casinos)
Some casinos canNOT bar APs, and yet they offer the best bj games. For example, Casinos Hollywood & Argosy offer double deck bj games with only 1.4 ~ 6.1 hold percentages (see below).
Quote: 21formeI've seen $50 6:5 shoe games at Mandalay Bay and Caesars. All of Venetian and Palazzo are 6:5 except HL room (100-200 mins). All of MOnte Carlo, NYNY and Ecalibut are 6:5 (except their enpty HL rooms), including $25 games on main floor.
How recent is this?
I know Caesar's main pit is all 3:2, usually $25 min. Busy nights you'll find $50-100 mins, but $25 still exist. The tit pit and the other one next to it (between tit pit and the high limit slots) is all 6:5 I believe. Not sure about the 2 pits on the other side of the bend, right next to the new poker room.
I know NYNY sucks.
Didn't know Exc and MB changed from 3:2 to 6:5 within the last few months. Quite surprising actually.
I highly doubt V&P don't have 3:2 on the main floor.
I love that term, it's the first time I seen it. Wynncore not so much.Quote: AcesAndEights, Venazzo .
Quote: 21formeI've seen $50 6:5 shoe games at Mandalay Bay and Caesars. All of Venetian and Palazzo are 6:5 except HL room (100-200 mins). All of MOnte Carlo, NYNY and Ecalibut are 6:5 (except their enpty HL rooms), including $25 games on main floor.
Venetian/Palazzo has $50 3:2 on main floor. I think you may have to request it. I saw a guy ask for min to be raised, and the pit boss raised the min and took away the 6:5 sign. I saw two other $50 3:2 games on the main floor
NYNY has 1 3:2 double deck and two 3:2 6 deck shoes on the main floor for $25 or less
At Excalibur I played 3:2 8 deck on the main floor for ~$15 (I don't remember the rest of the tables). And dealer was giving me very good penetration.
So overall these places are crappy, but you may find 1 or 2 good games.
