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Joined: May 11, 2011
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May 11th, 2011 at 8:30:39 PM permalink
I have made my last trip to Winstar Casino in Thackerville in Oklahoma. I have played blackjack for 30 years all over the country, but never at the Indian Casinos. I have won and lost, and admit to being somewhat of a sore loser. I have come to the conclusion you simply cannot win there. When I sit at a table, eventually everybody ends up disgusted from losing over and over and leave. It seems like know one wins. I wander if there are any former pit bosses from Vegas that work there and through their years of experience can see that something is just not right. It is uncanny how many blackjacks, aces up in a row that the dealers get. They crack me up when they put on what seems to be an act that they are so suprised by all their blackjacks, standing 20's, and hitting and not busting. I wish I had kept statistics on the percentage of hands I win. What I am sure of is that I can play 75-150 hands and maybe win three hands in a row during that stretch of playing. I can play 50 hands and never see a two-card 20 until the dealer has the samething. It does not matter if I am playing at a table with six decks or tables where they re-shuffle once they get through about two decks.

I cannnot go there and even play a leisurely game at the $5.00 minimum table. We just seem to lose and lose and lose. I want to repeat that I am a very experienced player, aware of bad streaks and the possibility of losing 10,15 or more hands in a row. But this is rediculous. I wrote the gaming commission, but I am already aware of the setup in Oklahoma and know it will fall upon deaf ears.

Could the machines be set up where once 'card-rich' hands that lean towards the house began to be shuffled into the machines in away that really increase the houses chance of winning. I play almost 99% by the mathmatics of the game.

i truly believe that one day it will be proven that somehow those shuffling machines are rigged.

Not one more .50 cent ante from me. I am done.
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 12th, 2011 at 4:38:44 AM permalink
Is it possible to rig the shuffler? Sure. Anything is "possible".

Would they? My knee-jerk answer is "no".

It's easy enough for a casino to implement rules to give themselves a higher house edge, that to risk bad publicity and possible loss of their gambling license on a rigged shuffler.

Then again, if it's an Indian casino, even if caught, would they lose their license? Possibly not, which may increase the odds that they actually did it.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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May 12th, 2011 at 4:51:28 AM permalink
the machine would have to be rigged so that it feeds the right cards to just the dealer. That is quite an ambitious cheat seems to me.
"No, I will weep no more. In such a night To shut me out! ... O, that way madness lies; let me shun that; No more of that" - King Lear deciding he has to accept bad Variance
Joined: Nov 2, 2010
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May 12th, 2011 at 4:56:33 AM permalink
It is so unlikely, it can not be possible.

First, the machines cost $1,000's to purchase, and you can never get the full spec on how they work. So even if you had your own technician, he would need to know exactly how the machine worked to be able to alter it. He could end up making a very expensive paperweight if he got it wrong.

Next, what logic do you give the shoe? Give all the players hard 17-20 and the dealer blackjack? Unlikely that sort of logic would work.

Also the shoe outputs clumps of cards, so there is always a card ready to be drawn, you would need to plan in advance for it work, how many players are playing, how many boxes are open, what if a player leaves, splits tens, or doubles down on a hard 15?

All these make it so remote, its not even worth doing. The time and investment spent does not outweigh the gain, on a game that already makes money.
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
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May 12th, 2011 at 7:00:28 AM permalink
I worked at shufflemaster for several years. The shufflers are not nor can they be rigged. I had all of the internal passwords to set up the software, firmware, etc. and there is nothing there that can be altered to gain advantage either way. They are exactly as u see them.
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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May 12th, 2011 at 2:25:51 PM permalink
I'd worry less about a shifty shuffler and more about a shifty deck of cards being fed in. Hold out a few cards from the deck and you could improve the house's chances.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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May 12th, 2011 at 2:32:42 PM permalink
You mention a 50 cent ante. Do you realize you will never beat that! 70 hands = $35 an hour in ante fees. The best any counter can expect is 1.5% profit. That includes " George " the greatest counter per Ken Uston. You would have to bet over $2300 per hour, count perflecthy and be able to spread your bets from 1 to 8 just to break even.
Are you paying a 50 cent ante, playing $5 BJ and somehow expecting to win ? If you are stay away from that firewater LOL
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May 12th, 2011 at 3:10:11 PM permalink
Quote: 3102yuma

Not one more .50 cent ante from me. I am done.

Help me out, forum. Is there a blackjack game where you have to pay a fee for the right to play the game? And people complain about 6:5?
In my wildest dreams I could not envision playing ONE hand where I had to pay an 'ante'. Yuma- it is possible you have had disproportionately bad hands, but if you are really paying an 'ante' you have NO CHANCE.
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May 12th, 2011 at 3:12:07 PM permalink
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
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May 12th, 2011 at 4:46:11 PM permalink
As soon as a player took a goofy hit, the whole rest of the shoe would be off. If you think they're cheating, hit a 19, and then you'll get all the other guy's cards.

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