Casino Ethics: Windows
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19 members have voted
November 10th, 2011 at 8:37:54 AM
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Are casinos acting ethically by not having windows?
Arguments for yes:
Like a pub, it's all about atmosphere
Arguments for no:
Like clocks, casinos don't want you to know about passage of time
Arguments for yes:
Like a pub, it's all about atmosphere
Arguments for no:
Like clocks, casinos don't want you to know about passage of time
November 10th, 2011 at 8:59:09 AM
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Quote: kpAre casinos acting ethically by not having windows?
Arguments for yes:
Like a pub, it's all about atmosphere
Arguments for no:
Like clocks, casinos don't want you to know about passage of time
Don't most hotels place the casino in thumb the basement, anyway?
November 10th, 2011 at 9:08:27 AM
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Some casinos do have windows, and a great number of casinos are located on the main floor. In today's world, most people have a watch, cell phone, or other device to keep time. That wasn't true 10 years ago. Casinos don't have windows because they don't want you to be distracted from the gambling experience by the weather or time of day outside. I don't have a problem with a lack of windows, but once again, I feel it's an exercise to keep people gambling, so, unethical.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
November 10th, 2011 at 10:19:23 AM
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Most casinos don't have windows because the casino is central, and there are shops, restaurants, theatres, etc, along the perimeter.
Those that DO have windows, it's irrelevant, because unless you're playing in the first couple rows of slot machines, you wouldn't notice them.
If you remember the movie Bugsy, he wanted a panaoramic view of the pool, but it was expensive and a p.i.t.a. to build.
Those that DO have windows, it's irrelevant, because unless you're playing in the first couple rows of slot machines, you wouldn't notice them.
If you remember the movie Bugsy, he wanted a panaoramic view of the pool, but it was expensive and a p.i.t.a. to build.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
November 10th, 2011 at 11:45:39 AM
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The only casinos I've seen IN MY LIFE with windows (and I've probably been in more casinos than anyone save the Wizard and rdw4potus) are the Riverside and Pioneer in Laughlin.
Rivers in Pittsburgh has a few but they are hardly visible from the gaming area.
Rivers in Pittsburgh has a few but they are hardly visible from the gaming area.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
November 10th, 2011 at 11:49:28 AM
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The Grand Vic. in southern Indiana does and Greektown in Detroit as well.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
November 10th, 2011 at 11:58:39 AM
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If it ever gets finished, Revel in AC Is supposed to have a huge picture window - the entire lenght of the boardwalk side of the building, and wrapping around the sides a bit.
Note that the casino is going to be one or two floors ABOVE the boardwalk, so this view is not going to be obstructed by doors or anything else.
In fact, if I recall correctly, the casino will be split onto two levels, one level all slots, one all tables. So there will be a good view from both.
Note that the casino is going to be one or two floors ABOVE the boardwalk, so this view is not going to be obstructed by doors or anything else.
In fact, if I recall correctly, the casino will be split onto two levels, one level all slots, one all tables. So there will be a good view from both.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
November 10th, 2011 at 12:12:03 PM
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The Sugar House in Philadelphia has a lot of glass facing out to the river. Of course, the Refinery restaurant is closest to the windows, but you can indeed see out from the gaming area.
November 10th, 2011 at 12:19:25 PM
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I think in the early days of casino design the windows were purposefully omitted in order to keep gamblers from knowing if it was day or night and keep them in the casino longer. I consider this unethical. On my last trip I stayed up the first night and did not realize how late it was until I saw the sun rise out the front door of the casino (MSS). The table emptied out shortly after I commented "Oh look, it's the sun rise."
Now days I think over casino design take president and windows will or will not be included based upon what fits best. Revel in AC is a prime example. They are going for the modern glass tower look and panoramic windows overlooking the boardwalk and ocean is a prime design feature. Sure, they will lose some gamblers when the sun rises over the Atlantic and lights up the casino. But to wall off that view to get a couple of extra dollars would be just silly. They may actually more than enough early rising gamblers coming down early to catch the sunrise to offset any late night guests going to bed.
Since today it is more about design than psychological tricks, I vote that casinos are acting ethically.
Now days I think over casino design take president and windows will or will not be included based upon what fits best. Revel in AC is a prime example. They are going for the modern glass tower look and panoramic windows overlooking the boardwalk and ocean is a prime design feature. Sure, they will lose some gamblers when the sun rises over the Atlantic and lights up the casino. But to wall off that view to get a couple of extra dollars would be just silly. They may actually more than enough early rising gamblers coming down early to catch the sunrise to offset any late night guests going to bed.
Since today it is more about design than psychological tricks, I vote that casinos are acting ethically.
November 10th, 2011 at 12:58:29 PM
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I believe newer casinos will have windows, as the presence or absence of windows affects gambling less than previously thought, and a good view is an asset, not a detraction.
I also think:
1. It is not a major issue: if you gamble, you go to a casino regardless as to whether or not it was designed with windows, or a red carpet instead of a brown carpet, or recessed lighting instead of hanging light fixtures or scones, etc. You look at their game offerings, and their accomodations, as primary considerations
2. People have watches, or at least a clue as to the time of day. If they don't - their fault, not the casinos. Besides, ask the dealer or floorman, and he's tell you, it's not a secret.
3. Nothing we can do about it anyway: write an angry letter to the Casino manager "I DEMAND that you install windows! AND clocks! This is an OUTRAGE! etc..."
I also think:
1. It is not a major issue: if you gamble, you go to a casino regardless as to whether or not it was designed with windows, or a red carpet instead of a brown carpet, or recessed lighting instead of hanging light fixtures or scones, etc. You look at their game offerings, and their accomodations, as primary considerations
2. People have watches, or at least a clue as to the time of day. If they don't - their fault, not the casinos. Besides, ask the dealer or floorman, and he's tell you, it's not a secret.
3. Nothing we can do about it anyway: write an angry letter to the Casino manager "I DEMAND that you install windows! AND clocks! This is an OUTRAGE! etc..."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
November 10th, 2011 at 1:09:50 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanNothing we can do about it anyway
I disagree that someone's behavior is automatically ethical if we can't change it.
November 10th, 2011 at 2:36:23 PM
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i havent been there in probably 5yrs but i remember the poker room at majestic star in gary, indiana had the best window view ive ever seen in a casino. the casino is a boat and the poker room was on the top level and windows were open all around so you could look out onto lake michigan. plus you could also go out on the deck, smoke a cig, enjoy the breeze, and enjoy the view.
November 10th, 2011 at 2:54:26 PM
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Quote: kpI disagree that someone's behavior is automatically ethical if we can't change it.
I never said it was "automatically ethical" if we cannot change something.
The casinos' configuration of their windows are both ethical and their call to make.
I simply said "Nothing we can do about it anyway," - in that it is stupid to make window views at a casino an issue.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
November 10th, 2011 at 2:57:03 PM
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Is Sears acting "ethically" if their store has no windows? What is the difference?
I think the "no windows" thing in casinos is old school. Both WPA casinos have windows, one with a nice view of the city. On a similar note, Fallsview in Canada has a huge CLOCK! Right in the middle of the floor.
Casino management is a very risk-adverse-follow-the-pack group, but a few thinkers do change things. My opinion is have a nice window if there is a view worth seeing. OTOH, if all putting a window in Caesars gave a view of was the parking lot at the Dunes, brick it up.
I think the "no windows" thing in casinos is old school. Both WPA casinos have windows, one with a nice view of the city. On a similar note, Fallsview in Canada has a huge CLOCK! Right in the middle of the floor.
Casino management is a very risk-adverse-follow-the-pack group, but a few thinkers do change things. My opinion is have a nice window if there is a view worth seeing. OTOH, if all putting a window in Caesars gave a view of was the parking lot at the Dunes, brick it up.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
November 10th, 2011 at 3:16:45 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanIs Sears acting "ethically" if their store has no windows? What is the difference?
The difference is motivation. Is Sears leaving out the winds because they want to place product along the walls of because they believe the absence of a window will make you buy a more expensive appliance? Same with the casino. Are they leaving out windows because there is no view or they believe you'll gamble longer without a window.
Businesses are in business to make money and maximize profit. They design their stores / restaurants / casinos / etc to optimize the customer experience in hopes of increasing profit. The question is where do they cross the line between ethical and unethical behavior.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:22:50 PM
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isnt this sort of similar to how you have to walk through a grocery store to get the gallon of milk thats on sale in the back?
November 10th, 2011 at 3:44:11 PM
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Quote: kpThe difference is motivation.
But then you could argue everyone's unethical.
Is Burger King unethical because they play upbeat music and offer hard chairs, to discourage you from hanging out? It's a get em in, get em out psychology move, is that "wrong"?
Many products, like those in the wine thread, create this air of superiority through marketing that results in their products going for 100's if not 1000's of times more money than their competitor, even though they're all just old grape juice. Is that wrong?
Every fast food joint's sign color is red and yellow. There's a reason. Are they "wrong" for using this psychological move?
Look at Dan. Now back to me. You're in a casino. Look down. Now back to me. You just won big. Look here. It's an amazingly attractive female. Unfortunatley, she doesn't know we're in an Old Spice commercial, so she doesn't pay you any attention. Is Old Spice wrong for duping you? I'm on a horse.
The casino is no different in this regard. IF the lack of windows are purposeful, IF the drinks, IF the cheques, IF the comps are all there ONLY to take your money, how is that different than any other business?
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:52:53 PM
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Quote: rudeboyoiisnt this sort of similar to how you have to walk through a grocery store to get the gallon of milk thats on sale in the back?
Along the same lines, is it unethical for a supermarket to put the cookies on the lower shelves so that little kids see them and nag their parents to buy them?
November 10th, 2011 at 3:53:50 PM
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Quote: FaceBut then you could argue everyone's unethical.
Is Burger King unethical because they play upbeat music and offer hard chairs, to discourage you from hanging out? It's a get em in, get em out psychology move, is that "wrong"?
Many products, like those in the wine thread, create this air of superiority through marketing that results in their products going for 100's if not 1000's of times more money than their competitor, even though they're all just old grape juice. Is that wrong?
Every fast food joint's sign color is red and yellow. There's a reason. Are they "wrong" for using this psychological move?
Look at Dan. Now back to me. You're in a casino. Look down. Now back to me. You just won big. Look here. It's an amazingly attractive female. Unfortunatley, she doesn't know we're in an Old Spice commercial, so she doesn't pay you any attention. Is Old Spice wrong for duping you? I'm on a horse.
The casino is no different in this regard. IF the lack of windows are purposeful, IF the drinks, IF the cheques, IF the comps are all there ONLY to take your money, how is that different than any other business?
Exactly. Any psychological "trick" to get consumers to spend more on their products/services is simply smart business.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:57:12 PM
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Quote: AZI think the "no windows" thing in casinos is old school. Both WPA casinos have windows, one with a nice view of the city. On a similar note, Fallsview in Canada has a huge CLOCK! Right in the middle of the floor.
I feel stupid. I've walked past that clock so many times, and I never noticed that it was a clock.
Stupid liberal!
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
November 10th, 2011 at 4:06:07 PM
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How is this an ethics question? Is a movie theater acting unethically by not having windows? Am I acting ethically because my house *has* windows?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
November 10th, 2011 at 4:48:59 PM
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Quote: boymimboI feel stupid. I've walked past that clock so many times, and I never noticed that it was a clock.
I kept looking at it, amazed. Had to point it out to the others in my group, though I am always the one pointing finer casino points out.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
November 11th, 2011 at 12:01:35 AM
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Atmosphere, hole-carding via binoculars, or just the economics of HVAC systems.
Should casinos such as M Resorts inject minute droplets of fig oil into the ventilation system? No, they should see that you smell French Fries and Urine instead?
Glass walls admit light and heat. The Vidara death ray is much over rated but not without some validity. One could say that providing attractive outdoor scenery is a distraction to money management, as is providing young and attractive cocktail waitresses.
One casino in Reno compromised, they provided a webcam showing the River.
Decades ago one man started an FBO in a desolate area. As planes landed to take on fuel was it ethical for his wife to come and provide fresh, warm oatmeal cookies so that few realized how long the re-fueling was taking?
Should casinos such as M Resorts inject minute droplets of fig oil into the ventilation system? No, they should see that you smell French Fries and Urine instead?
Glass walls admit light and heat. The Vidara death ray is much over rated but not without some validity. One could say that providing attractive outdoor scenery is a distraction to money management, as is providing young and attractive cocktail waitresses.
One casino in Reno compromised, they provided a webcam showing the River.
Decades ago one man started an FBO in a desolate area. As planes landed to take on fuel was it ethical for his wife to come and provide fresh, warm oatmeal cookies so that few realized how long the re-fueling was taking?
November 11th, 2011 at 4:11:52 AM
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Speaking of glass, do casinos have one way glass (mirror)? I'm imagining some did at one time, and maybe some of the older ones have remnants of that design. I don't know about the ethics of it.
I've seen mirrors high up on the wall near the ceilings sometimes and imagine intermediate floor areas between the main casino floors could be possible.
I've seen mirrors high up on the wall near the ceilings sometimes and imagine intermediate floor areas between the main casino floors could be possible.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
November 11th, 2011 at 7:46:12 AM
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Quote: jc2286Exactly. Any psychological "trick" to get consumers to spend more on their products/services is simply smart business.
Quote: MathExtremistIs a movie theater acting unethically by not having windows?
I think customer would complain about a movie theater having windows in the actual theater room, but how about these scenarios?
You buy your ticket at the box office. Once you enter the theater room, there is an attendant at the door collecting a $5 theater room fee that covers such things as air conditioning, having a seat, drawing a curtain over the windows, drawing the curtain back from the projection screen. Is this extra convenience fee ethical? It's in the small print on the ticket stub.
Young children are given unlimited credit at the snack bar. Before the kid can leave the building its parents must first pay off the kid's tab.
Within the movie, the theater inserts single frames of popcorn, candy, and soda. The single frames are not perceptible to the conscious brain, but the subconscious picks up on these and you are hypnotized into extra trips to the snack bar.
