Poll

10 votes (43.47%)
6 votes (26.08%)
7 votes (30.43%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)

23 members have voted

WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
  • Threads: 105
  • Posts: 1629
July 31st, 2020 at 7:44:53 PM permalink
'Its all about the money, all of the time' wmw `tm`. Whether people subconsciously realize it or not, they ultimately are doing it for the money. We all want it, we all need it, we all can't live without it, and I would venture to say that most people's problems , excluding severe illness and / or dysfunctional families, can be solved with money.

If there was no monetary exchange at the tables, the sports book, the slot machines.... there would be little to no activity... just sayin!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
smoothgrh
smoothgrh
Joined: Oct 26, 2011
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 596
July 31st, 2020 at 11:27:53 PM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin



If there was no monetary exchange at the tables, the sports book, the slot machines.... there would be little to no activity... just sayin!



I would play for sandwiches.
absolute
absolute
Joined: Jul 29, 2020
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 6
August 1st, 2020 at 6:49:33 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

'wmw `tm`.


What's wmw? What's tm?
I think I just figured it out. wmw probably means watchmewin and tm probably means trademark.
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 984
August 1st, 2020 at 7:19:39 AM permalink
Slews of honest posts continue. And a second post by the same guy - demonstrating only, again, how large others live in his head!
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.
redietz
redietz
Joined: Jun 5, 2019
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 308
August 1st, 2020 at 9:53:12 AM permalink
I gamble to make money, but that doesn't mean others can't gamble to lose money while still coming out ahead.

Let me explain. A long time ago, in a universe far, far away, some literary agents requested that I do sample chapters for a book about gambling.

One of the key themes of the sample chapters was that not all resources are material. American capitalism largely blinds people to that reality. So if you maintain some control of what you're doing, losing money gambling can be an overall positive, even if you just count the material end of things and especially if you do not.

First, a non-material example. Everybody wants to be James Bond. Well, if you're James Bond and you lose money, but you garner a certain personal profile that aids you among your business peers or in the pursuit of sex or relationships in general, then a net loss in money can lead to a net win in living.

Next, a material example. If the relationships boosted by the gambling have networking or profile value for you business-wise, then losing the money can boost your overall financial situation despite the (limited) gambling losses.

Also, if you operate at a certain level in life in general financially, then blowing off steam or relaxing while losing some incremental amount of money may be the mental/psychological equivalent of meditation-for-cost that gives you an efficient break and rest from your job. That break, if it refreshes and boosts you, can be of value if it's one of the optimal things you can do to rest. Many writers, for example, often recommend working at a mundane 9-to-5 job to contrast with the neurons you're burning while you're writing in your "spare time." Gambling of various sorts may provide a way to rest those parts of you that you use in money-making life or during relationship-building.

Now of course the problem is that most avenues of gambling are provably addictive, so that's the trap. When people like Leonard Tose or drug czar William Bennett lose their asses, you see the dangers. Bennett was lecturing on "Just say no," while gambling in his hotel rooms (he had machines put in the rooms -- LOL) and cavorting with babes. Anyway, between these guys, and Michael Jordan (who can sort of afford it) and Charles Barkley (who sort of can't), the caveats are in plain sight.

Overall, however, you can make the case that controlled gambling has a potential upside despite financial losses.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
TinMan
TinMan 
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 105
August 1st, 2020 at 10:13:08 AM permalink
When I was 21/22, I hoped I could walk between the raindrops and make money gambling without having any edge. The HE on BJ was small enough that I hoped with BS and short sessions I could come out ahead. Obviously thatís wrong. For years I avoided table games and only played poker. At this point, Iíd look at table games and think ďwhy play that when I know mathematically itís going to cost me $5-$10/hour in expected losses over the long term.Ē I read a ton of books on card counting. I found high-low too hard with the TCC. Tried Red 7 but still too hard to do in a real casino. At some point, I read an article pointing out that you wouldnít think it odd to pay $15 for a movie. Looking at gambling that wayóas entertainment and not a way to make moneyómade table games much more palatable, especially with the occasional free room. And learning to play games with a low house edge and zero strategy (craps over BJ) meant I could drink and not worry about strategy mistakes. Looked at as entertainment, craps is great! Highs and lows and suspense and interesting characters, all for about $4/hour in my local casino. $5 table with 10x odds means the money involved in each roll is enough to make each roll meaningful to me while long term I (mathematically) should not lose too much. Plus I really liked buffets when they existed. So, TLDR version: entertainment.
If anyone gives you 10,000 to 1 on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I am going to be a very rich dude.
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 984
August 1st, 2020 at 11:27:37 AM permalink
Quote: redietz

Everybody wants to be James Bond. Well, if you're James Bond and you lose money, but you garner a certain personal profile that aids you among your business peers or in the pursuit of sex or relationships in general, then a net loss in money can lead to a net win in living.


To a certain extent anyone who walks up to a gaming table, especially a high limit Baccarat table but really, any table game, and pulls out vast sums of chips is doing it because he feels he's at a place in his life where he may afford to bask in the fruits of his labors by indulging in gambling. Gambling - whether with the French nobility and their Chemin de Fer or the "sport of kings" - horse racing - has always been something that people with too much money entertain.

A friend of mine once suggested I buy a race horse.

"Why?" I wondered, "so I can win some money?"

"No, so that you could lose and not care."

I've seen with my own eyes and pit bosses have remarked to me about Asian players at the Bacc. tables who lose millions and then come back just weeks later to do the same again. To me, losing would be no fun and I'd stop it after one or two losing trips, but apparently that is not the way many see it. That is notwithstanding the possibility that some of these huge losers are compulsive gamblers, but then they have achieved success to the point of being able to play very big and I'd think most compulsive people would have lacked the discipline to succeed at anything.

They do play the James Bond theme every now and then at Wynn. 😎The idea is definitely to get people pumped. Not too different from when you're at the gym about to leg press some massive weight and Tom Petty's Runnin' Down a Dream comes blaring over the sound system.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.
redietz
redietz
Joined: Jun 5, 2019
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 308
August 1st, 2020 at 12:03:47 PM permalink
I did want to mention an element to this particular poll that makes me cringe. The idea of "Advantage Play" as some umbrella thing has, I think, more pitfalls than superficially evident.

I really believe people might be better off selectively defining themselves rather than using that phrase "Advantage Play." If you're a card counter, great. A machine hustler, great. A bonus whore, great. All of these things, separately, can yield a true advantage. When people start claiming they do some of this and some of that, I kind of roll my eyes, like I would regarding a doctor who says he delivers children, does brain surgery, and provides epidemiological advice.

Card counting, and knowing how to apply that to real casino situations, is its own thing requiring an awful lot of experience and expertise. Machine hustling is its own thing. I have a lot of issues with mickey crimm at the moment, but I think expertise-wise, he does know his machine playing as well as anyone. But this idea that people can truly be "advantage players" across a wide range of endeavors is semi-ridiculous, in my mind. I don't even like the idea of claiming that someone wins at "sports betting." The phrase "sports betting" covers too much ground. There are college hoops savants. There are college football savants. Not sure anybody wins much at anything else in terms of everyday betting, and I've been doing this for 40 years.

So I have a problem with "I am an 'advantage play' gambler" as a broad statement. If you think you can do everything, odds are you aren't doing anything terribly well.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 71
  • Posts: 6097
August 1st, 2020 at 12:32:01 PM permalink
Quote: redietz



So I have a problem with "I am an 'advantage play' gambler" as a broad statement. If you think you can do everything, odds are you aren't doing anything terribly well.



But some people only gamble where they have an advantage. They would be advantage gamblers.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Viper21
Viper21
Joined: Mar 21, 2020
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 11
August 1st, 2020 at 5:42:22 PM permalink
Quote: redietz


So I have a problem with "I am an 'advantage play' gambler" as a broad statement. If you think you can do everything, odds are you aren't doing anything terribly well.



A machine player can't know how to take advantage of a hole card opportunity? A card counter can't walk by a must hit by and quickly crunch the numbers to know if its in a positive state? This has to be a troll post.

A good advantage gambler has many tools in their 🧰.

  • Jump to: