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cclub79
cclub79
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August 31st, 2010 at 3:00:29 PM permalink
Quote: mlk


I would heartily disagree with the premise that making drinking illegal INCREASES the incidence of drinking. Granted, the prohibition won't reduce that incidence very much, but some number of underage persons--greater than zero--will refrain from drinking because it is illegal.



I agree with this. As much as there is the idea that college students want to rebel, there is definitely something to be said for the societal acceptance of a certain behavior. When you legalize something, you don't make kids LESS LIKELY to do it, you make them MORE LIKELY to find a way to do it more destructively. If buying booze became legal, it would just make it easier to go nuts and drink yourself to death. Do you think there wouldn't be huge frat parties with kids going crazy if drinking were legal? I'll be the first to admit this is a pretty flimsy parallel, but do you think legalizing a drug like pot would make more or less college kids try it? Why are all the smokers clamoring for legalization? So they can smoke LESS? C'mon.

Now if your argument is, "Well, they SHOULD be allowed to drink themselves ill and smoke lots of pot and gamble their college savings away in the Taj Poker Room when they are a freshman..." that's fine. But you can't say that legalizing something is a good way to lower the incidences of that behavior.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 3:11:03 PM permalink
Kids are going to drink if its legal or not, it makes no difference. Like several people here have said, and it includes me, they drank more between the ages of 18 and 21 than at any other time in their lives. I was always drunk or had a hangover in college, it was fun. Kids still do it, they've always done it, its a right of passage. Legality has nothing to do with it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 3:24:13 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

All the experts agree that if a man is going to be a problem gambler, he already is one by the age of 18, without ever entering a casino. And they say a woman can become one at any age from 18 to 80. Protecting people from themselves is a Socialist fantasy, its not possible. Look at the Great Experiment, Prohibition. The gov't tried to protect an entire country 'from themselves', and what happened was more people drank during Prohibition than before it was enacted. People are going to do what they want, you can't stop them.



So I suppose we should repeal laws against all forms of drug use, and for that matter, burglary, rape, kidnaping, and murder? Because "people are going to do what they want", no matter what?

Law and order is not "socialism". Neither is "protecting people from themselves", when the people in question are minors who lack proper judgment. Laws such as minimum driving ages, statutory rape laws, drinking age limits, and so forth have been drafted for the express purpose of protecting minors--if you like, "from themselves". This would only seem "socialist" if you've never spent much time around minors, and don't realize how much protection they DO need from themselves.

And I don't know where you got that "all the experts agree" nonsense, but there's no such thing as a problem gambler if he hasn't ever gambled in his life. Such a person might be a POTENTIAL problem gambler, but wouldn't that be a strong argument for keeping him OUT of the casinos until he's a few years older and presumably better able to control his compulsions?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
EvenBob
EvenBob
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August 31st, 2010 at 4:03:45 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

So I suppose we should repeal laws against all forms of drug use, and for that matter, burglary, rape, kidnaping, and murder?



So casino gambling is the same to you as drugs, rape, burglary, kidnapping and murder? I would say thats a tad bit extreme.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Garnabby
Garnabby
Joined: Aug 14, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 4:11:01 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

More than what? More than previously? If that's what you mean, recent human history disproves that as human birthrates have been dropping dramatically for the last two centuries--due to factors that are as much behavioral as genetic, but that is still a valid Darwinian marker.

And humans aren't all that new on the scene--our family tree goes back about five million years. And there are no "defective" genes--only unsuccessful ones (a subtle but vital distinction).

Our evolutionary cycle IS unique among animals because we influence our environments more than any other animal, and our behavioral and social structures both evolve rapidly and rapidly affect our physical evolution.



What the h*ck are you talking about???

Bye.
Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 4:14:45 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

So casino gambling is the same to you as drugs, rape, burglary, kidnapping and murder? I would say thats a tad bit extreme.



Nope. I didn't say that those things are the same to me at all. Don't put words in my mouth, especially not YOUR words.

I was responding to your assertion that "people will do what they want", so what's the point of having laws at all? Your fairly dumb thesis was that making an act illegal doesn't serve as a deterrent. Therefore, why have laws proscribing criminal behavior?

I agree that rephrasing your argument made it sound even more idiotic than it did as you had stated it. For that, I apologize. In the spirit of free speech and Traditional American Values, you are perfectly entitled to blurt out any loony-bird idea you wish, and it was cruel and unnecessary of me to point out the flaw in your argument---to paraphrase the Founding Fathers (me patriotic!), that is a truth we should hold to be self-evident.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 4:16:01 PM permalink
Quote: Garnabby

What the h*ck are you talking about???

Bye.



Would you like a list of good college textbooks on the subject? As a teacher, my mission is to help stamp out ignorance.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Garnabby
Garnabby
Joined: Aug 14, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 4:17:21 PM permalink
There're no such texts about "reading between the lines", and seeing through "posers".
Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 5:05:19 PM permalink
Quote: Garnabby

There're no such texts about "reading between the lines", and seeing through "posers".



Now, you're starting to babble.

And by the way, there's no such word as "there're" (it is indeed used quite a bit, but so are words like "anyways").
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Garnabby
Garnabby
Joined: Aug 14, 2010
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August 31st, 2010 at 5:17:10 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Now, you're starting to babble.

And by the way, there's no such word as "there're" (it is indeed used quite a bit, but so are words like "anyways").

Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)

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