FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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March 17th, 2014 at 5:40:24 AM permalink
God's revelation of Himself is threefold. The Bible is the written Word of God by inspired human authors. However, before the Bible was written, there was and still is a living Tradition that is also a way in which God reveals Himself. This is why there are prayers, doctrines, and practices not found explicitly in the Bible. Now of course Tradition can never directly contradict the Word of God or vice versa. These two sources of revelation give a breath and depth to what we believe that would not be found just in a collection of writings but at the same time is anchored in the written Word of God for stability and soundness. What you seem to asking about the most however is the third aspect of God's revelation. God would not reveal Himself in both letters and traditions without an authority to interpret and clarify things as civilizations advance and things become confusing. That is one of the reasons he established a Church, with a teaching authority guided by the Holy Spirit, to help clarify and answer questions when they arose. This is what is often called the Magisterium and instead of changing the Bible or Tradition it is this aspect of revelation that can clear up some things for you, me, and all of us.

There are still plenty of miracles taking place. In fact they are required for the canonization process for saints. After Easter we are going to recognize two more great saints. I always remember a quote that I will paraphrase that I saw in a movie once, "For those who believe no proof is necessary, and for those who do not believe no proof is enough." Something like that anyway - I think the point of that statement is true all the way back to Jesus' day. Jesus did do a lot of obvious miracles and how did that turn out for him? Implicit in your question is that you or more people might believe in Jesus if He did more obvious grand miracles. Well, I don't think Jesus wants you to believe in Him because He can perform miracles. After Lazarus was raised from the dead, he died again. Miracles are like candy they look good and then there gone and your not much better off. I don't meant that you are childish in any way, but it sees to me that the immature like and want miracles, the mature realize that God's eternal embrace of love and forgiveness for me is enough.
aceofspades
aceofspades
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
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March 17th, 2014 at 7:34:30 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I doubt you will have the answer to this but ill ask anyways.

I assume people who believe in god believe he is all knowing all powerful and can ANYTHING. God does Miracle all the time according to religion. He created the heavens, earth and man, for God sakes.

He must have known civilization would advance you think he would have directed man to make the bible less ambiguous, so not to create so much confusion. Any idea why he can just change the bible( we wouldn't even know) and clear some things up for us?

Why did he stop doing so many incredibly obvious miracles?



I think the lyrics of Tim Rice sum it up best:


Every time I look at you
I don't understand
Why you let the things you did
Get so out of hand
You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you'd come today
You could have reached the whole nation
Israel 4BC had no mass communication
Gamblor
Gamblor
Joined: Mar 13, 2014
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March 17th, 2014 at 7:52:15 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Quote: aceofspades

Even if I were to suspend disbelief and go with the story of all the world's animals being on board an ark...dinosaurs...really...?!?

here it is




Oh my. Another Clarence Darrow wannabe trapped in Divorce Court. SIGH !

I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of.
Clarence Darrow




Agnostic means without knowledge
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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March 20th, 2014 at 5:03:03 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

God's revelation of Himself is threefold. The Bible is the written Word of God by inspired human authors. However, before the Bible was written, there was and still is a living Tradition that is also a way in which God reveals Himself. This is why there are prayers, doctrines, and practices not found explicitly in the Bible. Now of course Tradition can never directly contradict the Word of God or vice versa. These two sources of revelation give a breath and depth to what we believe that would not be found just in a collection of writings but at the same time is anchored in the written Word of God for stability and soundness. What you seem to asking about the most however is the third aspect of God's revelation. God would not reveal Himself in both letters and traditions without an authority to interpret and clarify things as civilizations advance and things become confusing. That is one of the reasons he established a Church, with a teaching authority guided by the Holy Spirit, to help clarify and answer questions when they arose. This is what is often called the Magisterium and instead of changing the Bible or Tradition it is this aspect of revelation that can clear up some things for you, me, and all of us.

There are still plenty of miracles taking place. In fact they are required for the canonization process for saints. After Easter we are going to recognize two more great saints. I always remember a quote that I will paraphrase that I saw in a movie once, "For those who believe no proof is necessary, and for those who do not believe no proof is enough." Something like that anyway - I think the point of that statement is true all the way back to Jesus' day. Jesus did do a lot of obvious miracles and how did that turn out for him? Implicit in your question is that you or more people might believe in Jesus if He did more obvious grand miracles . Well, I don't think Jesus wants you to believe in Him because He can perform miracles. After Lazarus was raised from the dead, he died again. Miracles are like candy they look good and then there gone and your not much better off. I don't meant that you are childish in any way, but it sees to me that the immature like and want miracles, the mature realize that God's eternal embrace of love and forgiveness for me is enough.

So no real answers I guess. This reminds me of some of great players comments. Well said, but nothing.


God had to know man would crucify Jesus, he is all knowing. So why did he let let Jesus do more obvious grand miracles then? I guess he knew it couldn't be verified or documented in any way, that would be dumb to leave any real proof. Surly he needs the devil to have some hope in recruiting sinners.

Gog had to know we would need more to believe now days he could have found a better way to have Jesus get the word of god around. What your saying is that god a Jesus failed.

This candy comparison just wont cut it this day and age. Any REAL grand miracle would be documented and bring people to god in an instant. It would be the same as if aliens landed on the lawn of the white house ,95% of the world would now believe in life on other planets. This would not just fade and go away like candy.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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March 20th, 2014 at 7:51:11 AM permalink
You should read Mark's Gospel, it is the shortest one. Throughout the Gospel Jesus is constantly telling people he heals or drives out demons from not to go around spreading this news. Scholars call it the "Messianic Secret". There is only one time when someone claims Jesus to be the Son of God when there is no response and that is the centurion at the cross who looked up at Jesus says, "Surely, this man was the Son of God." Jesus does not want you to believe in Him because of His miracles, but rather because of His willingness to sacrifice His life for you.

If all it would take for you to believe in Jesus is someone to change water into wine or walk on water then frankly maybe its better if you keep searching. Christianity is full of miracles but its foundation is Love; all encompassing, unconditional, forever type of LOVE and this is the greatest miracle of all.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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March 20th, 2014 at 8:42:44 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

There is only one time when someone claims Jesus to be the Son of God when there is no response and that is the centurion at the cross who looked up at Jesus says, "Surely, this man was the Son of God."



I very much doubt a pagan, polytheistic Roman or Greek centurion would have veen conceived the thought "God."

"Son of a god" would be more plausible, as that had ample precedent in Greco-Roman myth. Many of the gods were children of older gods, like Athena who sprang full-grown from the head of Zeus (I need ot read up on that myth). And that would have awed him, seeing as how petty and vengeful the Greco-Roman Pantheon could be (look up Arachne, or the Trojan War).

But son of the peculiar, unusual, weird Hebrew deity? That would have been an alien thought for a Roman mind at the time. Just as today no one thinks they ought to make a sacrifice to Venus or Jupiter, or thank Neptune for an uneventful voyage at sea, or even think "Jupiter is Rome's only king," when reading about Julius Caesar, even after Caesar himself says it.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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March 20th, 2014 at 1:09:53 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

You should read Mark's Gospel, it is the shortest one. Throughout the Gospel Jesus is constantly telling people he heals or drives out demons from not to go around spreading this news. Scholars call it the "Messianic Secret". There is only one time when someone claims Jesus to be the Son of God when there is no response and that is the centurion at the cross who looked up at Jesus says, "Surely, this man was the Son of God." Jesus does not want you to believe in Him because of His miracles, but rather because of His willingness to sacrifice His life for you.

If all it would take for you to believe in Jesus is someone to change water into wine or walk on water then frankly maybe its better if you keep searching. Christianity is full of miracles but its foundation is Love; all encompassing, unconditional, forever type of LOVE and this is the greatest miracle of all.



The way the lesson of the Roman was taught to me was that the Roman's eyes were opened to the Truth at the last and his pagan beliefs were overcome with knowledge of the true God. Sort of an insight conversion to Christianity that was very powerful and provided an example of knowing, thinking inevitability and superiority of that Truth. Sorry, not saying it very well, but it mattered a lot in the context of the times; it was all very well for the Jews to proclaim a Messiah, but the Romans had their own belief structure, whether the traditional gods or Mithras, a secret religion practiced widely within the Roman legions at the time. And so the Roman conversion required a rejection of his entire religious structure, not just a fulfillment of Jewish prophesy that not all Jews accepted.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
aceofspades
aceofspades
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
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March 20th, 2014 at 2:03:35 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

God had to know man would crucify Jesus, he is all knowing. So why did he let let Jesus do more obvious grand miracles then? I guess he knew it couldn't be verified or documented in any way, that would be dumb to leave any real proof. Surly he needs the devil to have some hope in recruiting sinners.

Gog had to know we would need more to believe now days he could have found a better way to have Jesus get the word of god around. What your saying is that god a Jesus failed.




Tim Rice's lyrics say it best from "Superstar"

Every time I look at you
I don't understand
Why you let the things you did
Get so out of hand
You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you'd come today
You could have reached the whole nation
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
March 20th, 2014 at 3:10:32 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

If all it would take for you to believe in Jesus is someone to change water into wine or walk on water then frankly maybe its better if you keep searching. Christianity is full of miracles but its foundation is Love; all encompassing, unconditional, forever type of LOVE and this is the greatest miracle of all.

Christianity isn't the only thing that is love all encompassing so yeah, I'll need some watery wine to walk on please.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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March 20th, 2014 at 3:17:33 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

its foundation is Love; all encompassing, unconditional, forever type of LOVE

This may be an accurate description of a small part of what the Bible says, but it is not consistent with the history of Christianity in any way nor with a far greater part of the Bible. Christianity has a history of brutality and violence that is unmatched. The old testament Christian god seems to not take the 10 commandments very seriously -- at the very least, that god had a murderous streak.
End of the world website: www.climatecasino.net

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