Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
  • Threads: 179
  • Posts: 3815
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:28:37 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I thought the god of the New Testament was supposed to be big on forgiveness, but this seems terribly unforgiving to me.



Wow, Wiz. You just hit a chord with something I read, just yesterday:

Quote:

I won't inflict on you all my reasons for drawing away from the fold. They were clichéd, anyway, and not altogether innocent. Enough to say I started reading books Mole hadn't recommended. Some of them seemed pretty smart—and didn't jibe with the Bible. The defensive theodicy he'd drilled into me during those nights of heady exegesis developed cracks. The hell stuff: I never made peace with it. Human beings were capable of forgiving those who'd done them terrible wrongs, and we all agreed that human beings were maggots compared with God, so what was His trouble, again? I looked around and saw people who'd never have a chance to come to Jesus; they were too badly crippled. Didn't they deserve—more than the rest of us, even—to find His succor, after this life?



Read More: Upon This Rock

It is a fascinating essay, one of the best I've read in years; the writer attends the Creation Christian music festival.
NO KILL I
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:33:40 AM permalink
Quote: Scotty71

Ummm- I think you will get some interesting comments on this one, what with 10 virgins and all.



I heard that they weren't "virgins" but "raisins", or is that the Koran and that promise for those guys who flew into the WTC towers? (I think they feel kind of short-changed now!)

Ten California raisins after one guy? Truth is stranger than fiction!
Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
  • Threads: 179
  • Posts: 3815
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:54:57 AM permalink
To the original reading, I think it's pretty straightforward: be prepared. I don't think it was intended to be any deeper; its ironic content is light.

What I do think is extraordinary about it is how it invites personal introspection. The meaning is so obvious that it turns away any attempts at looking inside of it, and instead forces the reader/listener to look at how it applies to his or her own life. the invitation is to make living in the spirit of the lord a way of life, something natural and organic. Jesus is saying, "Don't study my teachings; LIVE my teachings."
NO KILL I
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:02:16 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I thought the god of the New Testament was supposed to be big on forgiveness, but this seems terribly unforgiving to me.



I think the problem is that we think God is not forgiving because there are people locked outside who did not know Him. We ask ourselves I'd let them in out of the goodness of my heart why won't God, what is His problem? God forgives us always, he loves us totally, but there is something else at work here. He loves us enough to respect our free will and the choices we make along with their consequences. If you don't buy the oil, if you aren't interested and invested in making your light shine in the darkness outside than what is God to do? Drag you into the wedding feast kicking and screaming? The choices we make in this life have consequences, we recognize that and are okay with it. Why do we get uncomfortable when the choices we make in this life have consequences in the next? God is constantly remnding us to trim our lights and keep our resivors of oil full, if we don't listen there will be a time when it becomes too late to dash off to the store and get some. As I mentioned before sometimes I wish God would force me to do what he asks of me, but he loves us too much for that. He created us with the power to freely make our choices and take responsibility for our decisions. I agree that this is not as sweet and full of butterflies as when we say God loves us and doesn't care what we do because we are all going to Heaven. The sobering challenge of the Gospel is that God loves us and cares tremendously about what we do because it is those choices we make that make all the difference!
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:30:50 AM permalink
As a newly ordained minister myself, I can tell you that God clearly shuns those who cannot predict the future (those who could not scry that the groom would be delayed) and loves the sin of gluttony (preferential treatment for those who took too much oil). You may refer to me as Father Studebaker from now on.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1375
  • Posts: 22948
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:34:45 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

If you don't buy the oil, if you aren't interested and invested in making your light shine in the darkness outside than what is God to do? Drag you into the wedding feast kicking and screaming?



I admit that I don't buy into what to me seems like a fairy tale. So, please tell me what the bible says awaits me for exercising the skepticism I was born with after I die.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:37:16 AM permalink
So the groom went off with five virgins. Does this mean the Bible endorses polygamy ?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:48:38 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

So the groom went off with five virgins. Does this mean the Bible endorses polygamy ?

Yes, the bible clearly endorses polygamy and the taking of concubines. That however is a discussion for another thread.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 289
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:11:30 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

So the groom went off with five virgins. Does this mean the Bible endorses polygamy ?



They were going trick-or-treating because that one guy will only give candy to virgins!

I think this has more to do with the times... I dont know enough about Old Jewish customs but I imagine polygamy was common. But polygamy doesn't have anything to do with the meaning of this parable from what I can tell.
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." — E.E. Cummings
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:22:46 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I admit that I don't buy into what to me seems like a fairy tale. So, please tell me what the bible says awaits me for exercising the skepticism I was born with after I die.



If by skepticism you mean a pursuit for truth and a desire to help others then I think that is a sure path towards God in this life and the next. If you mean a consistent and persistent decision on your part to not consider the possibility that there is more to this life than meets the eye and to live only for this world taking and grabbing all around you in a selfish and maddening pursit for fleeting pleasure than I would be worried. Wiz, I am not worried about you and I don't think you should be either. Keep pursing knowledge and the good bet and you can't lose.

One more thing about this issue. God knows us better than ourselves, there might be very real obstacles to belief in our lives that stem from our past experiences, our environment, etc. God understands them even if we don't. God does not hold that which would make faith difficult if not impossible against us and could surprisingly welcome us to the wedding feast, a feast that through no fault of our own we did not know about or could not come to realize.

  • Jump to: