sunrise089
sunrise089
Joined: Jul 12, 2010
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December 9th, 2010 at 10:33:17 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

You should never gamble when you can't afford to lose the stakes.

How many of you can afford to lose your life?



Nonsense. Did you buy your car considering only safety? Your house? Your job? Do you wear a bullet prof vest all of the time?

We live in a world of tradeoffs, and medicine isn't an exception to that.
Nareed
Nareed
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December 9th, 2010 at 3:09:52 PM permalink
Quote: sunrise089

Nonsense. Did you buy your car considering only safety? Your house? Your job? Do you wear a bullet prof vest all of the time?

We live in a world of tradeoffs, and medicine isn't an exception to that.



A considered risk is not a gamble.

True, you can get killed while driving through no fault of your own, and much more so while flying, but the risk is so small it's not really a bet. Besides you do hedge for such things by getting car insurance.

If you were to have a car accident 6 times out of thirty when you drove, you wouldn't own a car then. That would be gambling.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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December 9th, 2010 at 4:06:41 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

How many of you can afford to lose your life?



My sister in law has been a doctors office nurse for 25 years and she says the gamble is small. Most tests come back OK and they mostly pay for the doctors Mercedes and summer home. She has a very low opinion of doctors, as do many nurses, because they tend to blame all their mistakes ( and they make a lot of them) on the nurses.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Nareed
Nareed
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December 9th, 2010 at 6:19:53 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

My sister in law has been a doctors office nurse for 25 years and she says the gamble is small. Most tests come back OK and they mostly pay for the doctors Mercedes and summer home. She has a very low opinion of doctors, as do many nurses, because they tend to blame all their mistakes ( and they make a lot of them) on the nurses.



I should clarify.

Not getting an expensive, time-consuming and highly unpleasant medical test, such as a colonoscopy, for a condition the doctor thinks is unlikely, is not a gamble. Rather it is taking a measured risk weighed against inconvenience and expected benefits.

But the thread title is "Gambling with your life."

In the abstract my original answer stands: you shouldn't gamble when you can't afford to lose the stakes.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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December 9th, 2010 at 6:56:12 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

you shouldn't gamble when you can't afford to lose the stakes.



You also shouldn't gamble when you have to go into debt to get the stakes, as the guy didn't have the money for the test.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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December 9th, 2010 at 8:03:18 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Ah, the state of Health Care in America. Recently unemployed, can't afford health care, so he's forced to gamble his life because he doesn't have $1000 to pay because he lost his job. I guess he'll have to find work to be able to afford to get his care. My guess is that he isn't a smoker and is in general good health. Obamacare won't make anything better. This patient probably isn't the kind of bum that everyone says will benefit from a socialized health care system. Sorry for the rant, but my brother in law just cut back in their health care coverage to the point where he has a $500 deductable, and now he is going to delay routine checkups because he doesn't want to pay the deductable. I know this will attract some comments from AZ and Bob, oh well.

Back on topic, I would borrow, beg, and steal the $1,000.



What is wrong with a $500 deductible? My collision insurance on my car is that much. Higher deductibloes are how costs will get lowered. Look at the possibilities:

1. This patient has the choice of paying $1,000 to go from being 98% certain to 100% certain it isn't colon cancer. He will take time to be sure it is a good choice before having it done. Since the test cost well over $1,000, his getting it does increase the cost of insurance for everyone. So with so much "skin in the game" he will make a good choice.

2. Say the deductible is lowered to a nominal amount, say $100. The patient who has to put up that little will say "SURE" and have it done. The test as we know costs well over $1,000 and increase the cost of insurance for everyone.

Now, the answer is if we had a rational system of Health Savings Accounts the "do you have $1,000 right now" would not matter as much, but the better choice woll still be there.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
EvenBob
EvenBob
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December 9th, 2010 at 8:36:17 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Back on topic, I would borrow, beg, and steal the $1,000.



Not me. I had this exact same thing happen to me about 5 years ago. Blood in the stool, even blood in the toilet. I also realized I had screaming roids. I looked it up on the net, deduced it was bleeding roids, and it was. I ran it by my doctor a couple years later and he didn't even look up from his notes, he concurred with my diagnosis.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rxwine
rxwine
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December 10th, 2010 at 1:28:10 AM permalink
Billy Connolly on the colonoscopy. Funny, but vulgar.

here

Shoot though, $1000 is not much. Have some chest pain, get a ride to ER, bunch of tests, overnight, treadmill -- voila $10,000! And that's without diagnosis or any significant treatment.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
boymimbo
boymimbo
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December 10th, 2010 at 8:39:10 AM permalink
You can drive a car around without fixing it. You don't need a car to live. You can pay different amounts for car insurance and change your deductibles.

I guess the patient made the choice to have the $1,000 deductible through his private coverage, so he should have had $1,000 in emergency funds to handle the deductible.

With regards to standard deductibles, for people who don't make alot of money, $500 would represent the cost of the annual checkup that alot of people would avoid in favor of paying down a credit card, or more likely, buy an XBox.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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December 10th, 2010 at 9:22:26 AM permalink
It also gets back to the debate about discouraging preventive care [and tests], to go on and have the insurance pay zillions for something that was preventable.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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