AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
Moscaonenickelmiracle
August 17th, 2018 at 3:17:23 PM permalink
To me it all comes down to dealers these days are not set up to have you pick up a car a few days later like back in the day. Today it is all about volume. My guess is someone mixed up 2 nearly identical deals. That is why the $0.23, the 19 miles, and all the rest. Two near identical contracts on someone's desk, someone trained on sales volume not proper paperwork.

Shop elsewhere in 5 years.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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August 17th, 2018 at 4:20:38 PM permalink
I'd be interested to hear what their reasoning was for the 23c and 19m differences.
Doc
Doc
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August 18th, 2018 at 2:57:53 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I'd be interested to hear what their reasoning was for the 23c and 19m differences.

Well, they never really gave specific answers that I would put any faith in. As for the $0.23, they initially claimed that the figures had not changed. Just as they did not initially give me copies of the documents that I signed at the final closing of the sale (though I got them later), they had not given me copies of the signed documents from the day that I put down my deposit and committed to purchasing the car that was "in transit." However, I did have an un-signed copy of the document, showing the $0.23 lower price. They basically brushed that aside and declined to show me the signed documents from that earlier session. As I said before, I wasn't all that concerned about 23 cents, so I let it slide.

As for the 19 miles discrepancy on the odometer, the sales "consultant" initially claimed that those miles must have been driven as part of filling the fuel tank and doing the dealer prep and checkout. I don't know whether they have their own gas pump or needed to drive the quarter mile to the nearest gas station, but I think most everything else should have been taken care of on their own lot. I can only speculate that someone took the car for a little drive, but there didn't seem to be any damage, and I let the 19-mile discrepancy slide also.

The day that I made my follow-up visit to the dealership to pick up the missing documents and talk about the double-processed check, that was when I learned about having received a vehicle with a different VIN and the discrepancies on their internal documents. My salesman was off that day, but the next morning I sent him a text to let him know what had happened and that I wasn't a happy camper. I told him that they had listed a different person as being the salesman who made the sale. I also told him that they had claimed that he was just a new employee and must not know how to handle the transaction properly, since he was supposed to tell me that a different vehicle was being delivered.

He called me and claimed he had not heard anything about that and said he was completely unaware that the vehicle he provided to me was not the one that had been stated in the original contract to purchase. He just knew that the vehicle had arrived on their lot a few days later than it was expected. He claimed that he did not know anything about the closing documents having been modified (stock number and VIN) after I signed them. He said he would talk to his General Manager, but I have not heard any more from that. The only further conversation was in a call from their Finance Director, who had been out for a few days. His only concern seemed to be whether I was planning to pick up a check that he understood was waiting for me. If I were a scammer, I might pick up that check, but I don't really need the hassle.
Last edited by: Doc on Aug 18, 2018
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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August 18th, 2018 at 4:33:59 PM permalink
Car dealers like lying, forging, and stealing. Make sure they didn't steal your deposit.
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker. Hold my beer.
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
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August 18th, 2018 at 9:49:32 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

MaxPen is 100% right when dealing with dealerships. Never be a cash buyer.

This is true. I loved it when the old people would come in and say ďIíll give you $xxx right now, all cash(very loud so everyone in the dealership can hear).Ē It was always some ridiculous offer. They would always say something like Iím giving you cash right now to get it off your lot. Wow thanks for the offer to buy this brand new car thatís been on the lot for 8 days at a $5000 loss but I think weíll pass. But I am very impressed that you can PAY CASH for this car.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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August 19th, 2018 at 5:03:55 AM permalink
Dealers make money on the financing they want the highest rate on the loan that they can get you to agree to. And they want to deliver the cheapest car they can get to meet the commitment.

Its not an honest driven industry.

Locally I've got all these tv ads about a Kia dealer taking people on cruise ships and giving them free wall tvs. He is also known to let a buyer sign a contract and then tear it up, saying pay the taxes and fees, the car is yours. Where do the buyers think he gets the money to do things like that? From his kids lemon aide stand? He makes it by selling cars at high prices.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 19th, 2018 at 8:40:06 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Dealers make money on the financing they want the highest rate on the loan that they can get you to agree to. And they want to deliver the cheapest car they can get to meet the commitment.

Its not an honest driven industry.



Lets be fair, a good part of the problem is the buyers.

There is a YT video, a news station did a piece. Girl was buying a car. Dealer gave her a price of "x" per month as she was a finance buyer. Said she could pay only "y" per month. Dealer made the deal. Then she is on the news because to get "y" the dealer extended the financing a year.

Why is this news or bad? She said she wanted to pay "y" per month! She seemed oblivious that it is just not possible to drop the price of a car by 15-20% "just like that." She got the payment she wanted.

When I was in car loans, people were clueless. They thought that negative equity just vanished into thin air somehow. That the dealer "paid off your old loan!" One guy wanted to borrow about $25K on a $17K car, then got mad at me when I said we could not do that! When I tried to explain it, he just got madder and madder. Later that day another rep got a call after the salesman made the numbers work (I don't know how, I don't wanna know how) and the guy said I was rude or something. Meanwhile he was saying he was approved for $40K, which he was, but he did not get that he could not finance that negative equity,

Then they blame the banker and the dealer.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Doc
Doc
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August 19th, 2018 at 9:19:03 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Lets be fair, a good part of the problem is the buyers.

Other than the facts that I:
(1) accepted what the dealer had put in writing,
(2) did not examine the new car closely enough to catch that the VIN had changed, and
(3) did not verify the odometer reading before signing and agreeing with the dealer's figure,

can you tell me what parts of the problems that I described were caused by me?

Just curious on this, when buying a brand new car, do you folks always verify for yourself that the VIN plate on the vehicle matches the one that you were told you were buying? For a new car purchase, do most buyers go out and check the odometer before signing the slip to accept the dealer's figure? Maybe I'm just gullible.
Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
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August 19th, 2018 at 9:43:29 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Other than the facts that I:
(1) accepted what the dealer had put in writing,
(2) did not examine the new car closely enough to catch that the VIN had changed, and
(3) did not verify the odometer reading before signing and agreeing with the dealer's figure,

can you tell me what parts of the problems that I described were caused by me?

Just curious on this, when buying a brand new car, do you folks always verify for yourself that the VIN plate on the vehicle matches the one that you were told you were buying? For a new car purchase, do most buyers go out and check the odometer before signing the slip to accept the dealer's figure? Maybe I'm just gullible.



I donít think he was writing about you specifically; there are a lot of off-topic posts that discuss dealers in general.

Myself, I verify that the VIN matches the title and the stock number. The salespeople are required to get the VIN and the mileage directly from the car. In 30 years Iíve had that mixup twice that I can remember, and both times the salesperson shortcut that step. I CATCH that error about once a year, always pre-delivery.

Just yesterday one of the sales managers sold a car to another dealer (inside our system) that we had already sold, and that I had a deposit on. I caught it. There was one pissed off customer, but it wasnít mine. It was a used car with a rare set of equipment, not something you could just run down to the auction and pick up another. Stuff happens. I had the title in my hand, though, and I wasnít letting go of it.
NO KILL I
Doc
Doc
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August 19th, 2018 at 10:51:21 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I donít think he was writing about you specifically; there are a lot of off-topic posts that discuss dealers in general.

And I have not been trying to join the crowd in dissing car dealers in general. (My upstairs neighbor worked for a car dealership some time ago, and he told me he could give me some advice on negotiations. He offered the help because he claimed that car dealers and their techniques are the most dishonest that you will ever encounter. I bought the vehicle without getting his advice any further than asking whether he liked the car he was driving, and that was because it was one of the models we were initially considering.)

I was just relating a tale about this recent incident in which I think one specific dealer made a few, perhaps-minor errors and a couple of big ones, all on one specific transaction that involved me. I realize that if I had read the documents more carefully, demanded copies of all documents at the moment I signed them, and verified such info as VIN and odometer rather than taking the dealer's word and trusting them, then almost everything could have been straightened out on the day of closing. In my previous post, I was just asking whether new car buyers generally review the dealer's work/info that carefully.

On the other hand, I don't know what I could have done to prevent them from processing my check twice.

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