Nuclear attack warning
Getting a nuclear warhead to go off with a genuine nuclear blast (and not just a small blast from the included conventional explosives that are intended to compress and contain the nuclear reaction in its early stages) is not trivial. That's why not everyone can do it, even if they have a supply of uranium. In addition, if you are building a nuclear bomb and don't want to risk having it go off in your workshop, you build in a number of safeguards. Thus, if you launch a nuclear ICBM, everything has to go (almost) exactly right to have your warhead do its nasty deed.Quote: GWAEI meant can you actually blow it up? Wouldn't it be basically the same thing as it just exploding on land?
Let's assume that (1) you are under attack by an incoming missile that has a nuclear warhead, (2) you are using an anti-missile defense missile, and (3) that your own missile's warhead detonates in reasonably-close proximity to its target.
If your warhead physically destroys (or seriously damages) the incoming warhead, it is likely (hopefully) going to disable the delicate balance of the system that sets off the incoming warhead and will do that without causing the big nuke to go nuclear. The use of a low-yield nuclear warhead in your defensive missile increases the likelihood of destroying (or seriously damaging) the incoming warhead. In addition, the radiation from the exploding defensive warhead can disrupt the ignition system on the offensive warhead. These two points are the reasons (so far as I know) for which people consider launching defensive missiles that explode (small) nuclear devices in their own territories if/when they come under nuclear attack. Better a small nuclear blast as high as you can make the intercept than a big one closer to the ground.
As already noted, it would be best for the intercept to occur completely outside of the atmosphere.
Check out the image, from the wikipedia page. The area that it covers is incredible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse
Such an attack would be expected to possibly kill millions just from the disruption it would cause to normal life.
Quote: RogerKintLike the Apollo astronots didn't believe in the Van Ellen radiation belts, I don't believe in ICBMs. Apparently, when you don't believe in something, it can't harm you.
Van Allen was my astronomy professor in college.
Quote: RogerKintLike the Apollo astronots didn't believe in the Van Ellen radiation belts, I don't believe in ICBMs. Apparently, when you don't believe in something, it can't harm you.
I dont believe in trump but he doing harm nonetheless
Quote: darkozI dont believe in trump but he doing harm nonetheless
Then you obv believe in him. In fact, it would appear you're quite consumed by him.
Quote: DRichVan Allen was my astronomy professor in college.
Dude, stop. You were already my hero with the two wives thing. Now you're just showing off!
Quote: DRichVan Allen was my astronomy professor in college.
Was Van Halen your music teacher? 🎸🎸🎸🎸
Quote: RogerKintDude, stop. You were already my hero with the two wives thing. Now you're just showing off!
And he was teaching his kids how to use light wands on slot machines.
Or was that GWAE? I don't remember. You guys and your short few-character names....daarn whippersnappers, trynna be on fleek. Nah. Mans not hot.
#DappingOnMyHaters
Quote: RogerKintThen you obv believe in him. In fact, it would appear you're quite consumed by him.
Which was my point about the icbms :))
Unfortunately trump has had to date a more detrimental effect. I know at least one person who has lost their job directly due to his policies and a few others who are struggling to keep their jobs as an indirect result
Quote: RomesI have a friend I just talked to the night before this happen send me a screenshot of the text they got. Apparently all the radio stations also played a message saying something similar. It must have been pure chaos. In situations like these, ESPECIALLY with the hind sight of knowing it was a false alarm, I always have two responses:
1) Put yourself in the situation and think about what that would have been like. That would have been pretty crazy and I can't fully imagine it, but in the light after knowing it was a false alarm, I hope some good still came out of it. I hope it forced people to look at their lives and reflect upon them if they're the type of lives they wanted to lead... if they were happy with their life where it was at. I think something like this, while I'd never advocate for it, can be pretty beneficial to helping people realize things about themselves. Perhaps some regretted not doing this or that, perhaps others realizes how important it is to tell their family they love them each and every single day, or perhaps it will literally change the course of some peoples lives to push towards their passions regardless of economic situation because they now realize that extra dollar or two don't matter as much as their happiness. We can't changed what happened, so in the wake of it I hope everyone that experienced it in any form (directly or by having friends/family/etc there) learned something about themselves/life.
2) Comedy. In any situation you must be able to look at it and laugh, and if I offend someone then I'm sorry but that's how I choose to look at life. You know there were people who told their bosses off and left work. You know there were people who started boning their neighbor or someone they've always thought was cute but never worked up the nerve to talk to. In situations like these hero's show their true colors, but really crappy idiot people always also do ridiculously stupid things, which in the aftermath of knowing it was a false alarm, probably looks pretty damn hilarious.
Employee: "Since we're all gonna die, I just wanna say I hate all of you and you're all going to die and f*#& this place!!!!!!!!!!"
(40 minutes later false alarm)
Employee: "Yeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaah, I was just kidding?"
...next job interview
Potential Employer: "So, why did you leave your last job?"
Employee: "... I'll see myself out."
Reminds me of the "Joke," that Family Guy Quahog news anchors did where they said an asteroid or nuclear missile was going to wipe out Quahog in about a day.
The next day they did a solemn countdown, saying something like,"We await our imminent demise." Peter's intended last words to his kids weren't something heartwarming like,"I love you guys," it was something horrifying and heartbreaking. Something like,"I really resent you guys!" And then there was the horror when it was revealed that the news anchor were just JOKING, causing the kids to celebrate for about 5 seconds that they weren't going to die until it was processed that Peter just told them he resented them and they were understandably hurt and gave him the cold shoulder and he tried hard to make it up to them.
There was also an episode of American Dad where the Smiths thought they were going to be hit with a nuclear missile or something like that but it was a false alarm not unlike what happened IRL a couple of days ago. The family were HAPPY , all except Francine who looked sad. Stan says something like"What's the matter, Francine? We're not going to die imminently! You should be happy!" Francine replies something like,"I'm glad we're not going to die imminently, but when I thought we were going to be killed by the nuclear missile, it made me realize I haven't really lived a fulfilling and meaningful life and haven't really done anything spectacular! " Stan tries to help her get a fulfilling job.
SDI was largely a battle of press releases designed to lure the Russians into spending more than they could afford to spend. It appears to have worked. All those phases in the contracts kept real expenditures being deferred but huge numbers being quoted.Quote: beachbumbabs. SDI was space-based defense system under Reagan. Nobody is saying just what is currently circling to protect us.
Quote: FleaStiffSDI was largely a battle of press releases designed to lure the Russians into spending more than they could afford to spend. It appears to have worked. All those phases in the contracts kept real expenditures being deferred but huge numbers being quoted.
Agreed. It was smoke and mirrors.
But it was also more than 30 years ago. Huge technological advances since.Trillions in black money. Dozens of launches of classified objects.
Who knows what's up there unless and until they're forced to use it?
That is true and no one knows how subtle the use can be. An overt massive loss of satellites would be obvious but a subtle redirection or capture could be undetectable. All this rail gun stuff is beyond me.Quote: beachbumbabsBut it was also more than 30 years ago. Huge technological advances since.Trillions in black money. Dozens of launches of classified objects.
Who knows what's up there unless and until they're forced to use it?
Think what those Chinese gambling sites did with "live" game transmissions and microsecond delays, the UK cops needed counseling after visiting one crime scene. Now multiply the opportunities and shift it to antiquated military systems...boggles the mind. Think of a war being over before half the troops even know it has started.
Think of military phoning reports to headquarters with phone operators disconnecting the calls for non payment. It can be hard for changes to be made quickly.
Mass confusion. The more information, the harder to devise any good strategy.Quote: beachbumbabsWho knows what's up there unless and until they're forced to use it?
look upthread, you missed it. High altitude is what is wanted.Quote: ncfatcatWouldn't a high altitude nuclear explosion cause a large EMP?
For it to be devastating, I'm sure it has to be a biggie, but NO-KO has hydrogen bombs now ...
you need an explosion that produces a lot of gamma radiation
Ideally any positive regime change comes from within. NK is far from that. There are only two courses of actions - forced regime change (which is becoming very difficult). Sanctions when enforced do work, but the humanitarian cost to NK's citizens are extremely high.
Quote: DRichFor those of you that didn't see it, 60 Minutes this week did a great segment on the N.K. nuclear program. I had no idea that N.K. was that far along.
16 years of letting them do what they wanted under Bush and Obama allowed that to happen.
Quote: Boz16 years of letting them do what they wanted under Bush and Obama allowed that to happen.
Can't believe you let Clinton off the hook.
Quote: billryanCan't believe you let Clinton off the hook.
And until the N. Koreans reduce some part of their nuclear arsenal, it's not working under Trump.
Quote: DRichWhy would we expect another country to give up their nukes as long as we have them?
And since we have so many ICBM, subs, planes,, why shouldn't Kim?
edit
Damn you Mother's against drunk drivers ----MAD is what I meant.
And not Mad Magazine.
Quote: DRichWhy would we expect another country to give up their nukes as long as we have them?
Because the international community says so. If North Korea chooses not to agree with the overwhelming majority in the international community, then they can suffer under the sanctions they are put under. May not be fair to you, but it is what it is.
Quote: billryanCan't believe you let Clinton off the hook.
Hard to find fault with his 8 years. The country did good, he worked with Republicans and gave up on HC reform quickly. No Presidency is perfect but I think history will look back on his time as good for most Americans.
But I feel the same about Obama and Reagan as well.
Saddam Hussein ended up not having weapons and he and his sons are dead.
NK is betting no one will take him out with his ability to hit back, unlike Daffy and Saddam.
Quote: billryanDaffy Kaddaffy gave up his nuclear program. Now he's dead and his regime is history.
Saddam Hussein ended up not having weapons and he and his sons are dead.
NK is betting no one will take him out with his ability to hit back, unlike Daffy and Saddam.
Kim has learned some sort of lesson about surviving, which is apparently not only killing off actual and suspected enemies, but even friends or family members who he thinks may have gotten too influential. Pretty lonely at the top I'm guessing, but maybe doesn't matter if you're a psycho.
Quote: rxwineKim has learned some sort of lesson about surviving, which is apparently not only killing off actual and suspected enemies, but even friends or family members who he thinks may have gotten too influential. Pretty lonely at the top I'm guessing, but maybe doesn't matter if you're a psycho.
Quote: 1MatterToMotionIf the other side launched an all out nuclear strike, and human annihilation surely would result through retaliation by a similar strike, then should they retaliate?
Is there even any argument for "yes?"
My question is, will nuclear techology ever become so low tech that most countries can make them? Or even individuals or groups?
Quote: RigondeauxIs there even any argument for "yes?"
My question is, will nuclear techology ever become so low tech that most countries can make them? Or even individuals or groups?
Its not the technology, its the availability of materials and the ability to conduct tests.
Look at how small drones have become. An air force is now cheap. Look at how fast torpedoes have become, even a destroyer is now a sitting duck, not just a battle ship or carrier group. Indonesia has deployed unmanned attack boats designed to intercept poachers who've not paid bribes, The Indonesian boats outperform the Australian Navy.
Quote: odiousgambitSuch an attack would be expected to possibly kill millions just from the disruption it would cause to normal life.
I think the nation could prepare for a EMP response*, even assuming massive disruption.
A ration combined with a credit system would have to go in place for essential commerce only. That way one could go to a grocery store, pick up needed goods and and the grocer could obtain credit from you in order to purchase goods from his supplier. The grocer would record what goods you left with and both of you would exchange a series of personal ID. What ID you have and perhaps some not usually used ID. such things as names of neighbors/ -- small personal unique items such as a keychain with a particular item attached. All of it together could provide a temporary ID system. Someone might have some of your info, but likely couldn't adopt your complete ID, nor could you adopt theirs.
Until at times more and more systems are repaired. No one would need money, but buying and selling would be limited to very basic needs. Of course more people will die if not able to communicate from more distant locations to go to a hospital.
You would need police and National guard enforcement probably. Assuming the N. Koreans can't pull off a land invasion.
*of course the nation could prepare, but would it?
Quote: rxwineA ration combined with a credit system would have to go in place for essential commerce only. That way one could go to a grocery store, pick up needed goods and and the grocer could obtain credit from you in order to purchase goods from his supplier. The grocer would record what goods you left with and both of you would exchange a series of personal ID. What ID you have and perhaps some not usually used ID. such things as names of neighbors/ -- small personal unique items such as a keychain with a particular item attached. All of it together could provide a temporary ID system. Someone might have some of your info, but likely couldn't adopt your complete ID, nor could you adopt theirs.
How is a grocer going to buy food without cash flow?
Quote: gamerfreakHow is a grocer going to buy food without cash flow?
You can only do it with this credit system with an unusual amount of ID. The grocer would confirm sales and his own affirmed sales as a guarantee.
Any better idea? Some people would escape ultimate collection as systems resumed. It's not as bad as a total honor system though, or just giving everything away.
i'm not saying the whole thing wouldn't be a giant cluster f**k. Because it would.
Quote: rxwineYou can only do it with this credit system with an unusual amount of ID. The grocer would confirm sales and his own affirmed sales as a guarantee.
Any better idea? Some people would escape ultimate collection as systems resumed. It's not as bad as a total honor system though, or just giving everything away.
i'm not saying the whole thing wouldn't be a giant cluster f**k. Because it would.
I don’t have anything better I just don’t see how it would work, or even work as a cluster.
But it leads to an interesting question, how much of people’s money only exists as a value in a database? Even with what I can only assume is super solid backup and redundancy, could a large enough EMP/Nuclear attack in the right place make this money cease to exist?
here is a good quote for ya,
Quote: linkAn EMP attack will kill far more people than nuclear blasting a city through indirect effects — by blacking out electric grids and destroying life-sustaining critical infrastructures like communications, transportation, food and water — in the long run. But the millions of fatalities likely to eventually result from EMP will take months to develop, as slow as starvation.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/defense/333377-is-the-us-prepared-for-a-nuclear-emp-to-shut-down-new-york-city
