Poll

6 votes (54.54%)
1 vote (9.09%)
4 votes (36.36%)

11 members have voted

AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 16th, 2010 at 4:42:57 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

In aviation the most dangerous times of any normal flight are landing and takeoff. In rocketry it's launch and re-entry. Now, would you say that having superheated gasses escape from the boosters just inches away from a thin-skinned hydrogen tanks is dangerous? Would you say that having parts of the heat shield missing from the hottest areas durig re-entry is dangerous?

That's not hindsight, it's staring you in the face and the bureucrats ignore it.



Getting anywhere near a rocket is dangerous. So was a "flying machine" (Wright Bros) so was riding on top of explosive gasoline (Henry Ford) so was venuring into the ocean on a < 20ft ship with no idea how far it was to get where you were going (Columbus.)

These people didn't ignore it, they made a cost/benefit decision. But again you are making my point about so many folks in the USA saying "too dangerous" to pushing the envelope. I think I will now retire on this thread.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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August 16th, 2010 at 4:59:36 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

These people didn't ignore it, they made a cost/benefit decision. But again you are making my point about so many folks in the USA saying "too dangerous" to pushing the envelope. I think I will now retire on this thread.



I don't think so.

There are dangers in normal operations that can't be foreseen nor prevented. Those are the ones you take into account in cost/benefit calcualtions, and you either live with them or find another line fo work. But leaking boosters and breaking heatshields are not normal operations.

Let me try an analogy: you know our car can, even with good maintenance, malfunction somewhat catastrofically. Say a fluid line to the power steering may break, leaving you without control; or a brake fluid line may leak, leaving you without brakes (that happend to me once, fortunately I was going very slowly at the time). If such thigns happen, there are thigns you can do with your experience as a driver to minimize negative effects, and safety features in the car which will also give you some protection.

Now suppose a design flaw on your car made a little fuel leak onto the hot engine every time you press on the gas pedal. Now further suppose in cold weather chances are 90% for the leak being big enough to blow up and set fire to the car. Would you still live with that cost/benefit calculation, or would you correct the design flaw?


There's risk, then there's being reckless with known risks.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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August 16th, 2010 at 5:10:15 PM permalink
Horrible analogy. There have been literally billions of automobile trips. The dangers are well-known and quantified. The technology has been tested and re-tested, in the laboratory and the field, for over a hundred years. None of those things is true for the space shuttle.

To put it another way, your analogy would be correct if you were referring to 1896, when there were half a dozen cars in existence, and only a handful of people in the world even knew how to drive them.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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August 16th, 2010 at 5:23:35 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Horrible analogy.



Fine. Here's a better one:

Rockets work best if the fuel and oxidizer are hot. Alas, most fuels and oxidizers require ultra-low temperatures to stay liquid. One way fo dealing with this problem is to pipe the cryogenic fuel through the walls of the combustion chamber and exhaust cone, this also serves as the chamber's cooling system

Now, would you consider a leak in that cooling system to be dangerous? Because while it might blow up the entire engine assembly, then burn up through broken fuel lines, it would take time and possibly not reach the main tank right away. The leaking shuttle's boosters were sending superheated gasses ritgh at the main tank.

BTW, the shuttle used that cooling system for its engines. This tells you the main engines were amazingly good and well cared for, since they never had a leak in several uses.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Garnabby
Garnabby
Joined: Aug 14, 2010
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July 1st, 2011 at 6:40:51 AM permalink
My left kidney was very-successfully transplanted to my wife on May 18. In fact, her young nephrologist jokingly(?) remarked that her restored kidney-function probably exceeded his own. Not a lot of pain for me, speaking for myself, which involved the harder procedure... the transplanted kidneys are placed in the front.

Just thought i'd update this thread, now that it's over... something real instead of the boatloads of garbage docked daily at virtually all of the internet sites, not to mention the gambling-related ones.

Upon further inspection, looks like mkl#'s is still merrily wasting away his hours, now pushing some sort of imaginery envelope with (the always biased mod's)... in my humble opinion of course, lol.

To answer his remaining question, my remaining kidney will grow about 30%... to bring its total function up to 70%; though i may persue the same activities as before, and expect to live as long.



Ciao, maybe in ten years i'll drop by again, to see what new "bragging rights" the Wiz, and others, have accrued... double lol.
Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)

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