DRich
DRich
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onenickelmiracle
October 25th, 2020 at 2:08:40 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Frankly, I think your original premise is flawed. Or at least the numbers you’re using.

While slots often have mandated minimums, with some as low as 75%, no casino would set their machines that low or they wouldn’t have customers.

I think they are generally set to pay out in the 95% area, which makes them similar to tables. Hell, video poker is 97% or better. Hell, often you see signs saying the slots are paying 98% or more.



Almost all video slots are set below 90% now. Caesar's / Harrah's have many at 85%
Living longer does not always infer +EV
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 25th, 2020 at 3:11:53 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Penny slots, which can cost $3 or more per spin rarely pay over 90%. As for your last sentence, I believe it is wrong. What you see is signs saying this slot paid out over 98%, not they will pay out 98%. They are like the signs in a deli advertising that someone hit a lotto jackpot there. They are highlighting a past result. Video poker machines advertise this game pays out 98%, but I've never seen a slot that does.

Actually, he is correct, there's banks of slot machines that advertise UP TO 98%(There may only be one set to 98% on that bank). It's kind of rare nowadays to find machines set to 98%. It's been a while, but The Freemont may still advertise and have them available.

Oftentimes, the new machines come with multiple payback settings to choose from. I haven't noticed a 98% setting on any that I remember. Drich would someone to ask what the average high setting is, from what I noticed 95-96% is usually the highest.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
FleaStiff
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October 25th, 2020 at 3:20:34 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Almost all video slots are set below 90% now. Caesar's / Harrah's have many at 85%


Disgraceful. Might as well play at the AIRPORT slot concession or at The Venetitian.

Slos usually return good money to the casino, even if HALF of them ae being blaaked out due to Covid.
DogHand
DogHand
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October 25th, 2020 at 5:53:44 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Just saw someone lose 50 hands in a half hour playing 2 handed 2 deck blackjack. There was no upside. #YouTube #ElCortez
She only got up to 10 deals per shoe, I would have preferred a 6 deck shoe.



ChumpChange,

If she was playing two hands heads up against the dealer and getting 10 rounds per shoe, then that is better than 75% pen: 3 hands per round times 2.7 card per hand is 81 cards per shoe, or 81/104 = 77.8+% pen.

Dog Hand
kewlj
kewlj
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October 25th, 2020 at 6:37:30 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

ChumpChange,

If she was playing two hands heads up against the dealer and getting 10 rounds per shoe, then that is better than 75% pen: 3 hands per round times 2.7 card per hand is 81 cards per shoe, or 81/104 = 77.8+% pen.

Dog Hand



75% is not "normal" for that game at that property based on my rather extensive play there. It is dealer dependent despite that they use a notch. For anyone wondering how THAT works, it is about how they hold they cards, (tightly vs loosely) when inserting the cut card among other things. They also don't necessarily put the cut card in right at the notch. Some use it as more of a guide. Just a a little leeway can make a difference, but generally based on my experience, we are talking 60-67% range, with about 62% being the most common I get....again based on my experience.

Now I know EC allows that female to record some blackjack play for her YouTube videos. Perhaps they are a little on the generous side with her. Not sure why or what's in it for them.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
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October 25th, 2020 at 6:47:07 PM permalink
So you're expecting 8 deals per shoe? I said up to 10, doesn't mean always 10, may mean more likely 9.

I don't know how you expect to have a longer streak on a positive shoe with such a short shoe. With a 6 deck shoe, 83% pen, and 8.1 cards per deal, I'd get 32 deals per shuffle up heads up on 2 spots.

Anyway, don't you have to bet double the table minimum at both spots if you play 2 spots? Does that mean you have to bet triple the table minimum per spot if you play 3 spots?
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Oct 25, 2020
kewlj
kewlj
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October 25th, 2020 at 6:56:00 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

So you're expecting 8 deals per shoe?



Me personally? Well I don't play 2 hands. So heads up I would get 11-12. If I was playing with one other player playing 1 hand, we are talking 8. I wouldn't play with any more than 1 other player (1 additional hand) playing 62ish % penetration. For more than 1 other player Pen is going to have to be 67-70 % for me.

If you are playing 60-62% Penetration with 2 or 3 other players (or additional hands), you get less rounds per shoe which is obvious, but the reason that matters so much is you get fewer rounds towards the end of the shoe, which is when you have a better chance of a count worthy of max bet. In short, you get fewer max bet opportunities and that is a big deal.

Really, the easiest way to see this and understand is to play around a bit with software. Change the penetration levels and the number of players and you will see what seems like a relatively small change has a pretty big effect on true count frequencies (especially those Max Bet opportunities) and directly related, your win expectancy in general.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
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October 25th, 2020 at 7:27:54 PM permalink
I'm so annoyed at my gambling software. What's an alternative software to look at what you're talking about?
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
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100xOdds
October 25th, 2020 at 7:48:41 PM permalink
The OP asks a very good question, which I'm surprised doesn't get asked often.

I think a doctoral dissertation could be written about it, and still only be speculative.

My short answer is there are two reasons why people gamble:

1. They enjoy the adrenalin rush of a big win.
2. They enjoy the escape from reality.

Those who gamble for reason #1 tend to play table games, #2 tend to play slots. Those in camp #2 want to zone out and leave the real world far behind, as the song goes. This group, I think, doesn't care so much if they win or lose. They are in search more more for the game that delivers their fix.

Meanwhile, camp #1 wants to win. This probably explains why they like side bets, which offer the chance of a quick hit. It isn't so much they care about the net result of a session, but want excitement along the way of some big scores. These gamblers are more likely to gravitate to games that offer better odds.

You might ask which camp would I put video poker players in. I think they can be in either camp.

Please bear in mind I am just a math guy and don't know what I'm talking about when it veers off into psychology.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
kewlj
kewlj
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October 25th, 2020 at 8:15:34 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I'm so annoyed at my gambling software. What's an alternative software to look at what you're talking about?



I don't know what software you are using but I highly recommend qfit products.

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