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soulhunt79
soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
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November 4th, 2010 at 9:10:15 AM permalink
I just don't see how the conman is a good analogy. For a conman they must deceive you otherwise they can't get their share. While casinos aren't exactly saying flat out you will lose, I don't believe they are saying you will win if you come play this game. The game is a game, it has risk and reward.

I don't believe most people believe that on average if they put money in, they will get more money out, aka go into a casino to get free money. If you have some surveys to prove this otherwise I'll gladly look at them. If people believe they will lose and still play the games, then the casino isn't deceiving them anymore. Show me the conman that invites people over for dinner and tells them they are stealing from them while here. How many people are going to continue having dinner knowing that fact?
Doc
Doc
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November 4th, 2010 at 9:18:40 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Lets say you have a next door neighbor who really likes you and invites you to dinner a couple times a week and gives you good liquor to drink and you never have to reciprocate. While you're there eating, their 2 kids are at your house stealing your stuff. They never take enough to be noticable, but after awhile it really adds up. They might replace a nice diamond bracelet with a fake, or take some of the cash you have on the dresser. They steal some CC numbers and sell them. You get the idea. They're in cahoots with their parents, its a scam to act like your friend and ruin you financially. They are evil people.

Actually, when I read the first paragraph of the initial post of this thread (quoted above), I thought it was going to be some discussion about our relationship with the government. Take a look at that paragraph again, overlooking the thread title as I did. See whether you don't think that EvenBob might start an anti-government or anti-tax or anti-welfare thread with that paragraph as easily as he did an anti-casino one.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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November 4th, 2010 at 10:25:46 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Lets say you have a next door neighbor who really likes you and invites you to dinner a couple times a week and gives you good liquor to drink and you never have to reciprocate. While you're there eating, their 2 kids are at your house stealing your stuff. They never take enough to be noticable, but after awhile it really adds up. They might replace a nice diamond bracelet with a fake, or take some of the cash you have on the dresser. They steal some CC numbers and sell them. You get the idea. They're in cahoots with their parents, its a scam to act like your friend and ruin you financially. They are evil people.

How is what they do different from what a casino does?



For starters, I've never been to a casino that sends people to break into my house to steal my jewelry.

The premise of the modern-day casino gaming industry (yes, it's "gaming" - wagering on games of chance came long before video games) is to provide entertainment for a variable cost, a cost which is sometimes negative (that is, you sometimes leave with more than you came with). That possibility of negative cost is a big part of the entertainment value. The premise of every other entertainment industry -- baseball, movies, bowling, you name it -- is to provide entertainment for a fixed cost. If you're not having fun when you go to a casino, don't go.

But you must be having fun when you go to a casino because you've admittedly been going for decades. That's why your analogy is so wrong-headed. Are you honestly saying that you'd go back to your neighbors house even once after you found out their kids stole your jewelry?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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November 4th, 2010 at 10:37:58 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

For starters, I've never been to a casino that sends people to break into my house to steal my jewelry.



Are you sure? :)
rxwine
rxwine
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November 4th, 2010 at 11:24:10 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

The premise of the modern-day casino gaming industry (yes, it's "gaming" - wagering on games of chance came long before video games)



Bah!

Yeah, if your son tells you he's going to the ball "game" tonight, and tomorrow you find out he sold all your wife's jewlery at the pawn shop to put money on a roulette "ball", feel free to not call it gambling, but gaming.

I'm just pointing out that I believe it's an intentional emphuemism that "gaming" companies use, but practically no average joe or jane outside the industry ever bothers to refer to this "gaming" as anything but gambling. If you tell someone you play poker, they'll most likely never say, "Oh, you're a gamer aren't you?"

Furthermore, when they legalized gambling in Nevada, that's what they called it. I'm almost positive it's an intentional marketing ploy (probably from the heyday of the gambling's connection to mobsters, booze, and prostitution.,)

Lastly, calling it gaming doesn't specifically tell you whether wagering is going on -- so, it's not nearly as precise as calling it, "the gambling industry".
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 4th, 2010 at 11:34:22 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

I hate agreeing with MKL.... But I do completely.



Then why not try agreeing or disagreeing with the idea and not the person (me or anyone else)?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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November 4th, 2010 at 11:39:48 AM permalink
Here's some historical context:

http://www.americangaming.org/Industry/factsheets/general_info_detail.cfv?id=9

The only reason "gaming" doesn't give enough context today is due to the rise of video games. That's obviously a very recent phenomenon, but it now means "gaming industry" is no longer sufficiently specific. It's even worse when you start talking about "online gaming", which (for me) involves Internet casinos or poker rooms, but to a far greater number involves World of Warcraft or FarmVille. 100 years ago if you said "gaming" everyone knew what you were talking about.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 4th, 2010 at 11:45:17 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Here's some historical context:

http://www.americangaming.org/Industry/factsheets/general_info_detail.cfv?id=9

The only reason "gaming" doesn't give enough context today is due to the rise of video games. That's obviously a very recent phenomenon, but it now means "gaming industry" is no longer sufficiently specific. It's even worse when you start talking about "online gaming", which (for me) involves Internet casinos or poker rooms, but to a far greater number involves World of Warcraft or FarmVille. 100 years ago if you said "gaming" everyone knew what you were talking about.



They call it "gaming" now because after several hours in a smoky casino, most people smell pretty gamy.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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November 4th, 2010 at 12:18:48 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

The only reason "gaming" doesn't give enough context today is due to the rise of video games. .



Hardly true. Well, before video games, people commonly referred to gambling instead of gaming. Take a look at Google News archives and look at when references to "gaming" really come into the fore occuring around 1950, and compare it to all the references to "gambling" back to the early 1900s. It does occur back earlier, but it's pretty sparse.

I have no problem with the historical context. But that's like saying everyone has been using the word matriculating much more often than enrolling. Maybe, but it's been ancient history for awhile now.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 4th, 2010 at 1:10:00 PM permalink
Most people in this thread remind me of people I know. I have discussions with the ones that go to casinos and they all say they know they can't get ahead, but I know they don't believe it. They say stupid things like "I see people around me winning all the time", assuming the person is now ahead of the casino. They have no idea that the woman who just won $2000 on a slot had to put in $3000 over the last month to get it. Casino patrons remind me of cigarette smokers. They know the dangers of smoking, they even know people that have died of it. But they think it will never happen to them. I know at least 2 people who were lifetime smokers and were shocked when they got lung cancer. Casino people say they know the odds, but they don't think it applies to them, I'm convinced of it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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