MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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September 25th, 2017 at 10:41:54 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

First, you can and do receive W2-G's on table game wins. Wins of $600 or more (after deducting the wager) and at least a 300-1 odds payout receive W2-G's.

You're right, thank you. I updated the article.

Quote: Zcore13

The IRS does not go by sessions anymore. They go by a calendar day (easily attainable) or the Casinos gaming day (no usually attainable). The W2-G instructions specifically say it is by the day and even define the term.

That's not true, from the player's perspective, which is what we're talking about. The audience for W2-G instructions is the *casino*, not the player. The *casino* can elect to report multiple payments on a single W2-G, for either a calendar day or a gaming day. This has absolutely nothing to do with how a player is supposed to keep track of his/her wins/losses. About that, IRS Notice 2015-21 states quite clearly, "Gross income from a slot machine wagering transaction is determined on a session basis," and I can't find anything newer that supersedes that.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 25th, 2017 at 11:08:38 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: billryan

You said you add up your daily [actually session] wins. That is not correct. You add up your daily wins and your daily losses. You only pay taxes on the difference between the two.

You are 100% wrong on that. Read the article I referred you to. It's based on IRS documents and tax expert advice. As one of my expert sources says, "You may not, repeat NOT, subtract your losses from your winnings and only report the amount left over, if any. You're supposed to report every penny you win, even if your losses exceeded your winnings for the year."

There's also IRS Publication 529, which says, "You can't reduce your gambling winnings by your gambling losses and report the difference."

Again, all this is explained in my article, which includes official and expert sources.


Reading is FUNdimental. Read what I wrote. I didn't say to subtract your losses from winnings anywhere. I said you only pay tax on the difference. That is 100% accurate.
By the way, your rail information is wrong. The closest Amtrak station is not in LA. It's in Kingman. People going east or west can get off in Kingman and be in Vegas in an hour and a half.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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September 25th, 2017 at 11:27:43 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Reading is FUNdimental. Read what I wrote. I didn't say to subtract your losses from winnings anywhere. I said you only pay tax on the difference. That is 100% accurate.

First of all, what you wrote absolutely suggested that you meant subtracting losses from winnings. "You add up your daily wins and your daily losses. You only pay taxes on the difference between the two."

My reading scores were always off the charts. If you don't want people to misunderstand you, put more care into how you use your words.

Second, even your clarification is flat-out wrong, meaning not even close to "100% accurate". Most people don't itemize, and therefore most taxpayers DO owe tax only on the winnings, NOT the difference between winnings and losses.

I'm reminded why I quit this forum in the first place. I'm out again.
MaxPen
MaxPen 
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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Thanks for this post from:
RogerKintRS
September 25th, 2017 at 11:38:11 PM permalink
Michael most people just blame it on excessive fluoridated Popsicle consumption with a side of dollar store rib eyes. It really is much better if one sticks to the nightly meal deal special at Emerald Isle. That there is some good brain food.
Mission146
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Mission146
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September 26th, 2017 at 4:08:31 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay



I'm reminded why I quit this forum in the first place. I'm out again.



Channeling Gene Wilder:

Stop. Dont. Come back.

(Why do apostrophes not work?)
Vultures can't be choosers.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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September 26th, 2017 at 4:22:46 AM permalink
Nathan, I don't know your particulars for sure, but we have learned a little about you anyway and I would have to bet you do not itemize deductions on your taxes.

This probably being the case, the W2-g is a disaster for you, as it means you will be paying more taxes, in spite of the fact that, like the vast majority of slot players, you actually lost money for the year gambling.

I think the only way out of that problem is to win enough W2-gs so that you automatically qualify [if you have the losses] for itemizing your deductions. That, though, is not good either, as now you are in the position of not just stating you have the losses but are faced with the possibility you might have to prove it. I don't know how likely it is that you would get unwanted IRS attention that way, but personally I decline to ever be faced with that problem. I don't play slots.

You also increase the total gross income, the AGI, on your tax form, and for a lot of people that is also a disaster.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
DRich
DRich
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September 26th, 2017 at 6:18:21 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit



You also increase the total gross income, the AGI, on your tax form, and for a lot of people that is also a disaster.



I think that is the least understood concept amongst people that think they understand gambling taxes. They think by taking an equal write off of losses against wins costs them no taxes. The truth is they are still probably paying more.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
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September 26th, 2017 at 6:31:13 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

There's a more detailed answer in my article about gambling taxes.



Ummm... Section 1 of your discussion about gambling losses seems a bit mixed up, don'cher know?

Quote: You can deduct your gambling losses, but there are some catches:

1. For example, if you lose $1000 playing slots, and the next day win $400, and that's the only gambling you do for the year, you can deduct only $400 of your slot loss. You'll report a $1000 win and a $400 loss.



Not sure why I report a $1,000 win on taxes if I suffer a $1,000 loss. But, income taxes are complex. When I've had situations like the one quoted (assuming no other gambling that tax year), I would have reported a $400 win and a $400 loss (the maximum amount allowed by IRS because of my win amount) on my Schedule A. Probably my 2nd underline in your text should be changed from "report a $1000 win" to "report a $400 win."

Line 28 of Schedule A (Miscellaneous Deductions) has a place for the taxpayer to describe the loss. But, I'm don't expect it matters one tiny twit to the IRS if the taxpayer writes, "Gambling loss," or "$1,000 Gambling Loss." The dollar amount shown in the actual deduction will be $400.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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September 26th, 2017 at 6:53:28 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

(Why do apostrophes not work?)


Don't

They do.

I'm in favor of a dumping the IRS for a "graduated" national sales tax. Meaning that the more something costs, the higher the tax rate.
DAAIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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September 26th, 2017 at 12:07:35 PM permalink
Let me chime in here. First, a disclaimer that I'm not a tax expert but have been affected by the taxes on gambling winnings every year going back some 16 years.

That said, I will just comment on what me (or is it I?) and my account do. My accountant is Marissa Chien who literally wrote a book on taxes for professional gamblers, which most of her clients are. Since video poker is my main thing these days, under gambling winnings I declare the sum of my W-2G forms. On line 28 of schedule A I deduct whatever amount is needed to get total gambling revenue to what I deem to should be. This will include wins and losses from all forms of video poker. Thanks in part for four Super Bowl safeties in recent years, this amount is often the same as as the total of the W2G forms, because I have had a net loss for the year.

It is possible this is not what the letter of the law says to do but I do claim that is my understanding of the way gamblers actually do their taxes.

p.s. This is an apostrophe: '
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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