I808
I808
Joined: Feb 19, 2010
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September 22nd, 2010 at 9:42:41 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

"BTW you would be up $100 for that casino" >>> Thank you, thats all I needed. Ken



One small clarification ... as long as it is in CASH. If it is stll in chips, then you haven't formally/technically won the $100 yet.
Like they say in the marijuana industry "Sometimes you gotta roll your own!" (At the craps table that is)
mrjjj
mrjjj
Joined: Sep 4, 2010
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September 22nd, 2010 at 9:44:32 PM permalink
@EvenBob >> Are you asking me? lol Of course a person should stop playing AT SOME POINT of being UP, I dont disagree. Some want more than just $100 profit. Some time goes by and the person hits $300 profit but STILL continues to play. The person has/had FREE WILL to leave at ANY point. Its a tough arguement to say, the person had NO IDEA he was up. Ken
mrjjj
mrjjj
Joined: Sep 4, 2010
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September 22nd, 2010 at 9:46:56 PM permalink
"One small clarification ... as long as it is in CASH. If it is stll in chips, then you haven't formally/technically won the $100 yet" >>> Yes, I know all the what ifs. The guy walks over to the cashier window, gives them the chips, done deal...CASH, its his. Ken
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
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September 22nd, 2010 at 10:53:43 PM permalink
People play casino games for different reason, and the funny thing is, you would think that anybody that comes to one of these boards, for them it would be all about winning the money. Well we know thatís not true just because of the different answers, we are getting on this question!

Most players are social players, that rather give money back, so the can stay at the tables and impress the rest of the players on the table with all their knowledge of the game!
Sorry to tell some of you that, but I see it everyday with some of the local players.
They were winning at one point, and then they gave it all back instead of walking out the door. They end up losing for the day, yes they do win some times when everything is going just right, and they have to be home at a certain time!

They could be out-of-town players that just want to play 24 -7 when they are in a casino, and yes they might have won some time during their play. If you think that you were up $20,000 and walked out a $700 winners is winning I got news for you, you are a loser!

That scenario actually happened one night, when a young guy couldnít do anything wrong on his roll, it just kept going on, and with every stupid bet he was making, he won all of them. To bad he was drunk, and didnít know when to stop.
The next morning when I saw him having breakfast, he asked me how much I had won, $3000 was the answer. Then he told me that he had won $700 and was damn proud of his win, I didnít want to break his bubble, and didnít tell him how much he lost! I didnít get onto the table till his roll was just about over!
The way I got on the table was even better than his roll to show just how drunk he was, when a woman that he was trying to pick-up told me to get in on his roll, there was no room, so he tells one of the guys that he is working with to leave the table so I could play, sure did impress her!

Admitting that you fall into one of this category is hard to do, but if you want to win you got to see youíre self in the light of the day, and stop living in a fantasy world. Stop looking for the big win and walk when the table goes south. IĎve had players tell me they are playing for the fun of it, that are So-Called DIíS; I just want to puke when I hear that!

If giving money to the casinos is fun, try giving it to me, I will at least thanks you for it, the casinos wonít do that, I might even tell you what a smart player you were, by giving it to me instead of the casino, what buffet do you want to go to? I think I might be able to set you up with one if the money is right!

By the way we all have done this before, and it might take years for you to see the light, and rethink when the money became youíre money! One way of learning about your money is to play like itís the last you have, and after itís gone you can not reach into your pocket and pull out more! Then sticking to it, you have $500 for a month of casino play and when itís gone you can not play for two month after that!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
mrjjj
mrjjj
Joined: Sep 4, 2010
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September 22nd, 2010 at 11:05:15 PM permalink
"it might take years for you to see the light, and rethink when the money became youíre money!" >>> Very true and a great post. Thats why I asked. With questions like this, you will NEVER get only ONE answer from all. Ken
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 22nd, 2010 at 11:08:12 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

"it might take years for you to see the light, and rethink when the money became youíre money!"



Everybody knows when its their money, they just want more of it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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September 23rd, 2010 at 4:12:12 AM permalink
"Zero sum game?"

"Left xxx dollars on the table"

"You Never Count Your Money, When You're Sitting At The Table"

Most people go by the net sum of the activity. How much cash did you have in your wallet when you left home and how much cash in your wallet do you have when you come back. Oh sure, there are "adjustments" to this figure, such as: markers, cash advances, etc. And ofcourse there are the mental adjustments between gambling money and other expenses such as room, food, booze, gasoline, etc. Oh and yeah, there is always that money you give your spouse from your "winnings" even though its not from winnings at all.

But aside from the psychological adjustments about 'well, I would have had to have paid for meals anyway' or 'its entertainment', we all know what a loss is. If you buy in for X and walk away with Y then you compare the two and thats the result. You don't count the free drinks as income and you don't worry about the tips.

Anyone who hedges is explicitly comparing gains and losses during play. Anyone who talks about money he left on the table when he sevened out is doing a mental comparison of losses during play and gains during play. We all know that the moment you win the money it is yours and you can pick it up and leave. The "win" is your payment for the risk you took in making the wager. Yet no one takes a bet down when the dealer merely fists the table to indicate a push. YOu know you can, but you don't do it. You don't buy stocks at the exact bottom and sell at the exact top. You don't walk away from a craps table without having left some money there on the final roll.

Vegas is built on excitement. The workman who starts with twenty dollars and turns it into eighty grand at the tables has had great fun, but the casino manager is going to come around and give him a free room for that night and the next morning he will go back to the casino for "just a bit". The eighty grand comes back across the table and the workman checks out of the hotel carrying his own suitcases because he can't even afford the tip. He has his memories and the casino has "their" money or the casino has "his" money depending upon your moods at the moment. The poverty stricken workman who hit town virtually broke and who leaves town virtually broke, has his memories. Good or bad, he has his memories. The pretty girls, the free champagne, perhaps some commercial sex, the dreams ... he has had them. The casino books all losses as loans made to the player that are repayable at any casino at any time. The Casino Manager does his best to see that the loan is repaid promptly and repaid at his casino. Its the same reason the supermarket plays music for you or provides child-care for you: the longer you stay there the more you are going to spend. The casino gives you a free room to keep you there. The casino gives you the free drink and the cleavage and the legs solely to keep you in the casino and in the mood for gambling. The music, the sound of dropping coins ... its all to keep you "playing with the casino's money".

So in reality I go by the Bought in for one amount and walked away with another amount and that is the Win/Loss figure. The interim ups and downs are no more real than the smiles on the face of the waitress who knows that smiling at drunken old geezers is what her job is all about. The young woman who approaches me in the hotel corridor is after my money, no matter what her come-on spiel involves. The casino is after my money, no matter what interim spiels they give about winnings or atmosphere or entertainment.

When I was doing really really bad and just did not want that casino to get my last dollar, I went up to the cashier and cashed in my final white chip. Her joke about my possibly wanting a security escort to my car is just part of the casino's ploy to get every last drop there is! I went to a different casino to lose that last dollar, but it was a loss, even though it had an interim status of being cash in my pocket. It was part of my "gambling losses". The casino's Green-Eyeshade guy looks at a five dollar wager on Black at the roulette table and "sees" twenty six cents. If the bettor happens to win, the dealer pays off with an additional five dollars, but the Green Eyeshade guy sees another twenty-six cents being paid out and regards it as "the casino's twenty-six cents". That five dollar "win" is viewed by the casino as being their money.

So: do you lose the interim "winnings" or do you only do a net sum tally as you walk out the casino door? For different purposes, you do each. That one dollar I walked out of the old Barbary Coast with was just to make sure that they didn't clean me out entirely. I went to a neighboring casino to lose that final dollar. Psychologically I focus on " the casino did not get ALL of my money " but in reality, it did. It got that final dollar by owning the casino next door! Sure those two casinos use separate accounting ledgers, so do gamblers use separate ledgers. That is how a gambler can talk about "winnings" while he is sitting at the table, but the final result is all that really counts.
mrjjj
mrjjj
Joined: Sep 4, 2010
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September 23rd, 2010 at 5:25:17 PM permalink
Why do I ask on different boards? A poster feels he lost $500 on the day, yep $500. lol Different views I guess. Ken
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 23rd, 2010 at 5:46:00 PM permalink
Obviously, if you start from Moment A and end at Moment B, and you have less money at B than you had at A, you've lost money for that period. But is that meaningful?

Most of us measure time in discrete intervals. We assess things at the end of an hour, or a day, or a year. If I ended up ahead $500 for the evening gambling, I consider myself to have won $500. So what if I was up $1500 at some point? That doesn't have meaning in and of itself. To say that I "lost" $1000 because I kept on playing after I hit my high point is arbitrary, and stupid. To clarify by looking at it from a different perspective, if I had been BEHIND $1500 but had gotten back to $500 ahead before quitting for the evening, would that mean I had WON $2000? Of course not. What matters is the SUM of all the results, not progress from some arbitrary benchmark.

If you consider your final results only in the light of how they differ from your absolute high and low points, you will exaggerate those results. You can drive yourself nuts by saying, "If only I had quit at Moment X, I would have had more money than I do now." But how would you have known at the time? Would a little bell have rung or something?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mrjjj
mrjjj
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September 23rd, 2010 at 5:49:45 PM permalink
This is the exact quote. Do I agree with it? No. >>> Yes, you did lose $500 of your own. You gave it to the casino cashier, right ? So you lose it.
Fortunately, you were in a lucky day and won $600 before leaving, but that doesn't clear the fact you gave $500 to "enter" the game. You could have won $1500 or nothing, this wouldn't have changed, so yeah, you lose $500.

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