Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
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July 19th, 2016 at 7:34:29 AM permalink
And all this time I though you were an ap jk lol
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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July 19th, 2016 at 7:46:22 AM permalink
Don't play Christmas Story... It is for suckers!!
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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Thanks for this post from:
smoothgrhbeachbumbabs
May 24th, 2017 at 9:07:39 AM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

And all this time I though you were an ap jk lol



Here is another jackpot I hit a few days ago... I'm waiting for the next wisecrack :) !!
Not that anyone cares but I was stuck about 2700 before hitting it and that was over a few weeks of playing.
Interesting note that I hit the lower jackpot 4 times but never hit anything higher than mixed bars with the double sign.
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This place has a game that is at 53k that should be a play but they had the same machine a few doors down that was at 98k and I know it had to be a positive at that number. The information from the floor is that they dumped some large jackpot money into them awhile back. The jackpot starts at 10k for that game. My problem was that I didn't have anyone to play the 888 lock up game with me and I took a few shots at it but missed. I walked in the door a few days ago and it was gone. I think the one at 53k is playable but not the same as shooting for almost double that.

Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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May 24th, 2017 at 9:44:32 AM permalink
Nice hit. I've been looking in to deconstructing these machines, but it's a tedious process and in the midst of all the other AP'ing plus full time job it just is a slow grind of a process =P. I have a good idea what I need to know, it just takes some time and crunching some numbers =).

EDIT: One question I do have... Does a certain class of slot machine guarantee random results, and even if it did, who's to say they don't pad the results?

Example - Let's say I map a slot machine and it has the following results:

0000
0001
0010
0011
0100
0101
0110
0111
1000
1001
1010
1011
1100
1101
1110
1111

So let's say "1111" is the jackpot on the machine. To my knowledge, when you hit the button the RNG inside the machine picks a "RANDOM" result from the result set above. However, what's to stop them from putting in another hundred "0000" combinations to pick from to weight it down? Then the odds of the jackpot would go from 1/16 to 1/116, whilst they could still claim it's "randomly" selecting the result from the possible results? How could you ever know the true odds of hitting the jackpot, even with the reels mapped?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
rsactuary
rsactuary
Joined: Sep 6, 2014
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 1682
May 24th, 2017 at 10:09:54 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Nice hit. I've been looking in to deconstructing these machines, but it's a tedious process and in the midst of all the other AP'ing plus full time job it just is a slow grind of a process =P. I have a good idea what I need to know, it just takes some time and crunching some numbers =).

EDIT: One question I do have... Does a certain class of slot machine guarantee random results, and even if it did, who's to say they don't pad the results?

Example - Let's say I map a slot machine and it has the following results:

0000
0001
0010
0011
0100
0101
0110
0111
1000
1001
1010
1011
1100
1101
1110
1111

So let's say "1111" is the jackpot on the machine. To my knowledge, when you hit the button the RNG inside the machine picks a "RANDOM" result from the result set above. However, what's to stop them from putting in another hundred "0000" combinations to pick from to weight it down? Then the odds of the jackpot would go from 1/16 to 1/116, whilst they could still claim it's "randomly" selecting the result from the possible results? How could you ever know the true odds of hitting the jackpot, even with the reels mapped?



The random number generator is set my reel strip, not in aggregate as you imply above. As for padding the wheel, speaking for Nevada, the casino wouldn't have the ability to do that, it would have to be the manufacturer. For the manufacturer to get approval to put the slot machine in casinos, it has to provide the mathematical analysis to the Nevada Gaming Commission and it must be approved.

Any casino or manufacturer using or creating a non-approved program would likely be fined or lose their license. I doubt it would be worth it.
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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May 24th, 2017 at 10:22:19 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Nice hit. I've been looking in to deconstructing these machines, but it's a tedious process and in the midst of all the other AP'ing plus full time job it just is a slow grind of a process =P. I have a good idea what I need to know, it just takes some time and crunching some numbers =).

EDIT: One question I do have... Does a certain class of slot machine guarantee random results, and even if it did, who's to say they don't pad the results?

So let's say "1111" is the jackpot on the machine. To my knowledge, when you hit the button the RNG inside the machine picks a "RANDOM" result from the result set above. However, what's to stop them from putting in another hundred "0000" combinations to pick from to weight it down? Then the odds of the jackpot would go from 1/16 to 1/116, whilst they could still claim it's "randomly" selecting the result from the possible results? How could you ever know the true odds of hitting the jackpot, even with the reels mapped?



Thanks for the interest. I don't think I can help you. I am not even close to your level of play. I only have a few things going for me. I have been in town for a long time. I know what machines are playable when the jackpot gets past a certain number. I know that in one casino the same game will have a different jackpot number and the same game in another casino will never be playable. I know this from some inside information. I know this from players giving me information. However I know this because I have put millions of spins on these games and know exactly how much per hour I will lose. I also know from experience what the average time it takes to spin off a jackpot on certain machines so it is pretty simple for me to figure out if I will come out ahead in due time. This certain casino and jackpot was of little worry to me. In some places I will lock down the machine until I spin off the jackpot but over here these machines barely get play. That doesn't even matter anyway. I just want the jackpot numbers to be a certain number every time I decide to play. I can't back anything up with math so I know your not going to like that but I am sure someone will help you get the answers you desire.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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May 24th, 2017 at 11:21:08 AM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

The random number generator is set my reel strip, not in aggregate as you imply above...

So you're saying they don't "program in" those 16 cases. Instead they must program in the symbols, and thus the RNG that selects from there wouldn't be able to add scenarios that aren't available via the natural symbols/result set (i.e. 16 results above). From a programmers perspective, it would just be so easy to add literally a couple lines of code that buffers lower amounts in more often. Then again these machines should fail testing at that point. Thanks for the info, was just curious.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
monet0412
May 24th, 2017 at 11:30:08 AM permalink
Quote: monet0412

Here is another jackpot I hit a few days ago... I'm waiting for the next wisecrack :) !!
Not that anyone cares but I was stuck about 2700 before hitting it and that was over a few weeks of playing.
Interesting note that I hit the lower jackpot 4 times but never hit anything higher than mixed bars with the double sign.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This place has a game that is at 53k that should be a play but they had the same machine a few doors down that was at 98k and I know it had to be a positive at that number. The information from the floor is that they dumped some large jackpot money into them awhile back. The jackpot starts at 10k for that game. My problem was that I didn't have anyone to play the 888 lock up game with me and I took a few shots at it but missed. I walked in the door a few days ago and it was gone. I think the one at 53k is playable but not the same as shooting for almost double that.


This game was the first machine I ever hit the top award on, although it was 25¢. Hit it on the fifth spin for $1509. Girlfriend at the time was pissed because I had not planned on playing and on the third spin it came "blazing 7, blazing 7, double right under payline as she laughed at me. :-D
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
rsactuary
rsactuary
Joined: Sep 6, 2014
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 1682
May 24th, 2017 at 11:31:33 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

So you're saying they don't "program in" those 16 cases. Instead they must program in the symbols, and thus the RNG that selects from there wouldn't be able to add scenarios that aren't available via the natural symbols/result set (i.e. 16 results above). From a programmers perspective, it would just be so easy to add literally a couple lines of code that buffers lower amounts in more often. Then again these machines should fail testing at that point. Thanks for the info, was just curious.



Yes.. to say it another way, as I thought about it...

Your initial thought would have to have the RNG determine a payout, and then determine reel stops that result in that payout. While I believe the RNG determines the reel stop, and then calculates the payout based on the reel stops selected.

If you think about the video slots... to use the first method would be a logistical (and mathematical) nightmare.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 72
  • Posts: 6281
May 24th, 2017 at 12:22:38 PM permalink
Quote: rsactuary



If you think about the video slots... to use the first method would be a logistical (and mathematical) nightmare.



To me the video poker in the class 2 and lottery markets is the strangest scenario. The server picks a win amount and send it to the machine. The machine then has to deal out cards that will result in that win amount. Of course when players hold or discard certain cards it screws up the plan and the either the match card or genie appear to make up the difference. About 15 years ago I built an algorithm for a major machine manufacturer to use in New York to approximate the frequencies and hand results so they were very similar to traditional class 3 games.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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