buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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September 18th, 2012 at 6:26:18 PM permalink
I think the only advantage will be on the DVD. Another realty show packaged as real. Pawn stars and that dumbass show about bidding on storage units. Been there, done that.
kmumf
kmumf
Joined: Jul 5, 2011
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September 18th, 2012 at 7:12:44 PM permalink
I agree Evenbob something seemed off when they were showing the interactions between the teammates. Also the lack of real conflict in the documentary is what bored me the most. They put way to much emphasis on the backed off players.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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September 18th, 2012 at 9:11:44 PM permalink
Maybe they would sell more DVDs if they put Chumlee on the cover?
Its some sort of hucksterism rather than truth.
No one ever has such utterly bad luck in a casino or such utterly good luck.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 18th, 2012 at 9:27:44 PM permalink
Quote: kmumf

They put way to much emphasis on the backed off players.



They seemed to think getting backed off means they
they were extra good, dangerous players. Its what
people who don't play at all would think. The whole
thing has me baffled. When the guy said he was
thrown out of every casino he played at, he actually
was proud. Like its hard to get 86'd if your a bad player,
it only happens to the really good ones.

I'll watch it one more time. Something stinks about the
whole thing. One issue I had is they're supposed to be
Christian's, and they talk about how evil the casino is, yet
they're playing to enrich themselves personally. It seems
if they felt it was evil , money, they'd want to give to the
money to a good cause, like a charity. And I don't remember
any church scenes, just them reading the Bible occasionally.
Odd..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 18th, 2012 at 11:34:49 PM permalink
This just gets weirder and weirder. From a FAQ
by one of the team members.

Were you ever arrested or threatened by a casino?

"Most casinos were pretty laid back and nonchalant about card counters. I've had dinner with pit bosses that kicked me out earlier that day." http://mscottfoster.com/2012/06/11/christian-blackjack-holy-rollers-faq/

I've heard this kind of talk before, and its always from
people who have a fantasy about what being an AP is
really like. Dinner with pit bosses who kicked you out?
Are you sure thats the story you want to stick with?

In the film the leader says:

At least we can liberate the money from the clutches of those who would use it for ill purposes. I mean, that's a start.

I'm not a big casino fan, but what 'ill purposes' do the casinos
use the profits for, exactly. Paying the employee's? Paying the
light bill? Building a bigger parking garage? They act like casinos
use the money to starve kids in Africa or something.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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September 19th, 2012 at 1:20:49 AM permalink
The Hard Rock Arrest story is a little hard to believe, as per the time frame mentioned, mid 2000's. In the state of Nevada, the ruling from the Wilkenson case in the 70's still stands and has been upheld many times. Even, after previously having been read the trespass act, a patron must be given the opportunity to leave prior to arrest each and every time. This means that you can show up at a casino day after day after day, even after having been 'trespassed', and they have to first allow you to leave before any further action. Yes, this pretty much makes the whole act of trespassing someone meaningless. They can only arrest you if you refuse to leave. The casino's all know this, and if they didn't they certainly do after several of the large verdicts and settlements of recent years. They now, only go through theses trespass motions as a form of intimidation. Back-rooming is a thing of the past when it comes to card counting activity. So any attorney that they hired would have wanted to do much more than just get the charges dropped when presented with this case.

My own experience has been that there is a level at most properties, where a certain amount of advantage play is tolerated, at least for a short time. It is just easier for pit folks to look the other way for a while and hope you will leave on your own. But that leash is short. If you stay more than 20-30 minutes or play at levels above this threshold, they will not tolerate it, simply because if they do nothing, THEY may have to answer for it. Now this church team was certainly playing above any kind of comfort level for the casinos. So, a statement like, "Most casinos were pretty laid back and nonchalant about card counters", makes no sense. Especially when in the same breath, they claim to have been kicked out of every casino. Completely contradictory.

Having dinner with a pit boss that kicked you out earlier, seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened. One night while at a bar/club at a non-casino property several miles off the strip, I was approached by a gentleman, who introduced himself as a pit boss at a strip property. He bought me a beer and told me that I was no longer welcome to play at that property on his shift. We talked a bit, and he bought me a second beer before leaving. I have since run into this gentleman a half dozen times at this establishment. Each time, we usually have a beer or two and a bit of conversation. I have found these conversations and this casual friendship, to be very beneficial. So, I can't dismiss the possibility that such a dinner took place. As I said, stranger things have happened.
1BB
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
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September 19th, 2012 at 5:47:20 AM permalink
I've had a pit boss who knew me from his casino join my table and start counting. Talk about awkward!
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
ShiftyRicky
ShiftyRicky
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
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September 19th, 2012 at 7:55:34 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I was approached by a gentleman, who introduced himself as a pit boss at a strip property. He bought me a beer and told me that I was no longer welcome to play at that property on his shift. We talked a bit, and he bought me a second beer before leaving.



I have actually done this, I sat down to play at one of our local joints and recognized an AP at the game.
I played with him for a bit, and when they closed the table, I went to the bar. The AP joined the bar scene,
I very politely introduced myself, bought him a drink. We talked for a bit and before I left, I asked him and his partner
(who was not with him, who I later played with at the other local joint) to not play in my casino. He was very nice, he said "deal"
and we went on our way.

He already knew who I was, because his partner and him had came in about a year before. They came back in and noticed I had taken
some precautions, and they said it wasn't as easy at my place anymore.

I never saw them again.
"Does the sign outside still say Casino?...okay then"
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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September 19th, 2012 at 9:50:24 AM permalink
When I got backed off at the Western (to include the El Cortez, Vegas Club and Gold Strike) the suit offered to buy me a drink at bar. He was very cordial and seemed to see advantage play for the game that it is.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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September 19th, 2012 at 10:04:39 AM permalink
This all makes sense to me, and strikes me as mature and adult behaviour.

Professional enemies can be, and should be, personally amicable.

Here's an example:

Back before the area was booming, everything was a big cluster-**** to try to attract the coal miners and/or construction workers to your hotel. I had a discussion by which another hotel manager called me, as follows:

"Hey, (Mission146), I noticed some of (company name) trucks are in YOUR parking lot."

"That is to be expected, that's where people tend to park when they are staying here."

"How'd you get them?"

"Well, I drove through your parking lot, got the company's phone number of off one of the trucks, schmoozed the girl that answered the phone, and managed to get the Crew Supervisor's phone number. I called him and made my pitch, he convinced the company to move the crew here."

"How much did you beat my rate by?"

"Negative ten dollars, which is to say they are paying ten dollars more per night."

"WHAT!?"

"Yeah, the company is paying for the rooms, not the individual guys, those are all company plastic. In any case, I told him that he and every crew member get two free drinks at the bar every night they are here. Of course, they're not free, the company is paying for them, hence me not at least matching your rate! They also like my flat screen TV's, you shoud really talk to ownership about opening the wallet over there. That was a 25K investment here that took, maybe three months, to be proven to be directly profitable."

"Yeah, well, we don't all have the luxury of ownership that listens, bye."

"Have a good one! By the way, I'm sold out tonight, so if anyone comes in, I'll send them over to you...it's the least I can do!"

***He worked the afternoon shift a few days later, I got off early and we went to Denny's for a cup of coffee and apple pie. I bought...that time!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219

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